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Guys Budget for Petrol/Diesel Heads
Budget 2012-13 and Auto Industry:
Three Categories and three subcategoris in 1st two:
A) <1200 CC and <4 M: 12 % excise duty (up from 10%)
B) <1500 CC and >4 M: 24 excise duty
C) > 1500 CC and >4 M: 27 % excise duty
A) <1500 CC and <4 M: 12 %
B) <1500 CC and >4 M:24 %
C) >1500 and >4 Meter: 27 %
3. Suv: Priced more than $ 40000: Excise duty up from 60-75 %
At the moment dealers speculated a hike of Rs 80000 on diesel cars. Here is my take, anyone with monthly running of 550 kms should opt for diesel car at the current price point.
Who cares for 6-8 % population who doesn't even bother to caste their vote, its masses who doesn't own these assests and have nothing to worry untill govt increase bus prices, diesel price, rail fare (even most of general class travel ticketless).
I guess my thinking got a little skewed by the situation in Kerala where
1. Penetration of bike is much more. A very high percentage of men (though I dont have the figures) have bikes. And they are all very active during elections and form the vote bank.
2. Most people take proper ticket and travel by train, even for general class. Ticketless culture is yet to pick up here since the population density is not very high compared to big cities.
You should travel to Bihar and UP for this experience. Even reserved seat are not reserved.
I gave you all India figure of bike and car sale and broader ratio would remain same for India in % term
Government have decided to deregulate diesel price in principal. Lets see how this goes
Apart from the above... one has to also consider how auto finance impacts the decision between petrol or diesel
Refer my reply comment at http://www.carwale.com/forums/ViewThread-27808.html
I would advise you to go through this thread from page one to page 22. You will get even better picture. All the members, moderators have discusses almost all the aspects of Diesel V/S Petrol, TCO including running cost, maintenance, resale, insurance, tyre wear and tear etc.
This will help you.
I would be happy if petrol and diesel car users are given a fair deal. The oil companies should balance the two in a reasonable manner rather than ending up exploiting both type of customers.
many of us have this unfounded impression (without much calculations, data etc) that if we drive more than 1000 km per month, then diesel would be more economical, i came across this news item, please see this and give your valuable suggestions as to whether the author here is right or not?
plus one more very important factor which now we've to take into consideration;
Govt is going to de-regulate diesel prices soon and the price per litre will increase, don't know exactly upto how much.
Now the question is: "Would still diesel be economical and if yes, for whom? means who drives minimum how many kilo meters?"
THREADS MERGED. Please search before opening similiar threads.
This table is for the case where the recovery has to happen in one year and obviously everything will tilt in favour of petrol since the cost difference of the car (Rs.90000 + one year interest) has to be recovered in one year.
But if you are going to recover it in 5-6 years (or more), then Rs.90000 (even along with the diminishing interest for subsequent years), will get distributed over those years and diesel will look more attractive.
i was also under that impression, however when i read the rest of the article in the remaining pages, it became clear to me that over a period of 5 years, the calculations are aptly done and they show the "savings" of diesel over petrol in the long run. pl see the next page of that article.
here it is for your easy search
Thanks, Santhanam. I went through case 2.
Yes, they are right in the sense if we are not going to use the car for at leat 50000 Km (maybe over a period of years) before we dispose it off, diesel does not make much sense.But some keep their car for 7-8 years, and might go well above 50000Km.
Another two points to be considered are:
1. These calculations are based on Rs.70 per litre for petrol. If petrol price goes up steeply in 2-3 years time, things will look quite different. Even if diesel price is deregularised, since it is industry fuel and also used for public transport, there will be some indirect control somewhere. Else inflation will go out of control.
2. Many calculate interest of the difference in the pricie of diesel and petrol variant and add it to the running cost every year. This is absolutely true if we are going for car loan. But if we are spending directly from your pocket, it is not the case. Though we can argue that we can invest the difference in FD or some other scheme and get returns on that, practically it does not happen that way. We will end up in spending that money on things which are not so important. Whereas the additional spending on diesel car price will turn out to be a long term investment.
If the above points are considered, probably diesel might make sense even at a slightly lower running (700-800 Km per year).
I was just going through all the reviews its really fascinating for person Like me who is "0" on cars and am planning to buy my first car in a months time, Need your valuable advise on which one to choose
My Avg monthly running as of now would be close to 800 but I feel it will defnitely increase once my kid starts going to school...
My budget is around 6 On Road price can vary by 50k max..
I did some research on the Diesel segment and Figo was good but GC was not that good and me being tall @ 6ft I felt very uncomfortable getting in and out .. after reading your post Fabia sounds good..
Pls advise what are the other options in the diesel segment below 6.5lks
THanks in advance for your Suggestions
You can go for Fabia TDI or Punto with segment topper GC. Car is gem but only worry is FASS however it is going to improve as fiat have started their own outlets. Give it a try, Punto is great handler. Fabia is good but engine worry me a bit its three cyclender where as Punto got Fiat MJD which is also in indica, swift.
My bet Fabia and Punto, rest is your subjective likes and dislikes about design, creature comfort
For tall people, Ritz is very comfortable to drive. Take a look at Ritz diesel (unless you have some issues with its shape).
Go for Tata Indigo eCS(CR4) LS/LX I'm getting very good experience with my Indigo eCS. very good mileage of 17+ in city with 22 on highway. smooth and good pickup, completely changed my conception on diesel machines.
I don't like to have the diesel-petrol analysis even if fuel prices are equal. If my budget allowsI always prefer Diesel
In response to Tomy's comment,
Let me classify hatches in two segment
For tall drivers visibility is never a problem in low seating positions but only issue is with the leg and head room.
Take a look at all three cars, take someone who is blunt and honest in his/her opinion.
Take a long TD in Bumper to bumper, high speed, bad roads, in afternoon hours for AC, you will find you answer.
Sure will do ... take a test drive and will finalise and will Keep you posted as well in the same thread thanks all for your inputs..
Good calculation & Good discussion too.
But now in Goa, there is huge difference. BJP CM Manohar Parrikar has cut VAT and petrol costs Rs. 54.93 as compared to earlier Rs. 65.54. Diesel is at around 44 - 45.
Cost per km has come down to Rs 3.8 per km @ FE of 15 kmpl. For diesel it would be Rs. 2.3 per km @ 20 kmpl.
Max saving is Rs. 1.5 per km for diesel car.
Old days are back for petrol cars. It now costs Rs 1700 for 30 litre petrol as compared to Rs 2000 before. Thats for full tank of Indica.
Yes this will tilt balance back in favour of petrol. Break even would be much higher in the range of 1300-1500 kms/ month, this is rough guess. I haven't done the calculations for Goa but surely petrol owners are winners in the states.
Old days are back for petrol cars.
now there is some relief for petrol car owners in GOA and further tilt in equation towards petrol car buying in the state. Even the LPG variant is hardly purchased.
its only when we need to fill a few litres of fuel outside GOA, we feel the pinch of high cost. and now it will be harder.
The ride quality, leg room, rear seat leg room and comfort with boot space added with mileage and price, the Indigo eCS is the champ, I have no doubt about this.
Petrol retails at Rs. 73.14 per liter courtesy 7.5 Rs hike. This will further tilt the balance in favour of diesel.
Maruti Swift/Dezire will notch higher sales figure.
the govt has shown their cruelty just after the elections. Rs.7.5/- is a massive hit and the crowd is going to come on streets for this.bangalore is the worst hit with the rate hovering at 81.00/- per litre.like many even i've got the tank full but the same thing will arise again " what can a one full tank of petrol can do to the common man?"
Government let jwellers go without duty on gold and diamonds as that move would have bought unorganized sector small jwellers in tax net. Bunch of them protested, rather they had political connections and govt rolled back. Hiking petrol is very easy way to collect the tax. Our state is very weak when it come to enforce any decision or collect tax revenues. Thus only easy option it rise petrol price
So ... my old nightmares/predictions were correct, after all (though many felt that the petrol prices have stabilized).
Now the decison making is simpler, considering the trend in petrol price (not just today's price).
1. Those who run more than 400Km per month can go for diesel car. Those who are at 400-500 Km per month might think petrol is OK considering today's price but things will again become worse for petrol soon.
2. Those who run less than 400 Km. They dont need to buy a car, the can use taxi (which is diesel) for their occasional use. And for decorating their car porch they can use a dummy car like those we see in some showrooms (only body, nothing inside, like the dummy cell phones).
Car manufacturers can think of shutting down their petrol plants and bike manufacturers can come out with diesel variants.
Now this is the time to discuss again on Petrol Vs Diesl
Iam living in Hyderabad, after all taxes added now the petrol price is 81.44, ohhh thank god mine is a diesl car.
so i think nobody will dare to buy a petrol car now!!! Iam staying 17km away from my office and my bike's monthly running cost(office+outside trips) is 22ltrs=1791
if i use my diesl car which is giving 17 in city so approxmately 50ltrs(Office+small outside trips) of diesl(50*45)= 2250.
if i spent 459rs extra i can happily go in my car with AC and polutionless journey. of course this is my calculation it may vary from person to person. but my diesl car justified my decision this is what i can say for now!!!. bye
!!!! Drive Safe !!!
Assume Rs.15 increase per year for petrol for the calculations. So, if we are considering a period of 5 years, the price after 5 years will be 80 + 15 x 5 =Rs.155 per litre. So average price for petrol over a period of 5 years will be (80+155) / 2 = Rs.118.
Now govt and oil companies have tasted easy blood. Now they will continue going for it like greedy leeches. Middle class can be easily exploited and they wont respond much or have much effect on the votes. So Rs.15 increase per year is going to be consistent, if not Rs.20 in future.
Today TOI published a piece of write up which is meaningful and not biased.
No car for <400 kms and more than that Diesel car make more sense. I am also waiting for the Diesel bikes with turbo chargers, hoot to drive, more FE than petrol counterparts i.e. FE of100 km/l in real conditions. Boy a boy, bike will be back bang.
Second option: Environmental friendly, no carbon emmission but need dedicted cyclist track on every road. Cycle to work, will have health benefits as well.
Diesel is also bound to increase in the near future. Gov will not be able to retain at the same price for long and once that happens the equation will change again
I hope so but doesn't seem so at the moment and Govt. is eying 2014 general election. With election as bottomline, govt. would like to contain inflation (hovering at 10 % for long) and diesel can upset the equation. At the moment dollar v/s rupees (though speculative) is already creating ripples
Thats the main problem. They are not allowing even the normal inflation reach the market. Had they been to do that we would have seen steady increase in prices and not such a huge hike. Anyway I feel this government will not last long given the number of scams and prices hikes they have done
Its not face of ave government I am talking about, its system. Any government will do the same. So far all the government have scams under their belt :P
No big deal. When petrol prices go up by Rs.20, diesel price will go up by just Rs.7 or so. If we actually look at the increase in per Km cost, we can notice the difference. When the per Km cost of petrol goes up by some Rs.1.5, for diesel it will be some 40 ps only. The gap is widening day after day.
Well ... no immediate increase in diesel price. I may have to relook at the figures I gave yesterday.
For Rs.25 increase in petrol, we can expect Rs.5 increase in diesel. Or in other words, when the per Km expense for petrol car goes up by Rs.2, we can expect the per Km expense of diesel to go up by 25 ps.
I bought the Wagon R in November 2011 as my usage was 10 kms per day as my office was very near to my home and last few months back my office location has been changed and i am driving 50 kms per day and the petrol price is now Rs. 79.00 in chennai and can you please anyone give me the better solution to overcome this problem. Whether i have to fit LPG or i have sell the car and buy a new diesel car i.e. Chevy. Beat. Please let me know selling my new car is a better advise.
LPG will not give ou much of a saving. Between the two, buying the beat diesel will make better sense, even though it will require upright investment of more money. It will give you returns in the longrun. This thread is meant for a comparision. So, if you have further queries, you may open a new thread.
@Charles, Diesel is your option when you drive 50 KM a day. Chevy beat can be considered if you like the look and its specifcations.
But consider the extra premium to buy the new car! you may need another 2 L (minimum) to buy a new beat. My advice is to put the 2 L in mutual fund and use your Wagon R.
We can consider diesel for 20Km per day (if not less).
But I agree on the second part, we will incur lot of losses if we change the car.
Today I visited some showroom and come out with a different thought. Petrol version of a car is giving 80K cash discount including exch offer. Petrol version itself 1 L cheaper than same variant diesel version. Hence straight you are getting 1 .8 L cash discount. In today's rate 1.8L interest amount(monthly) is around 4000 for 5 yrs loan. If I buy petrol (Rs 78) of 1.8L and consider milage of 13kmpl, I will go 30000 km. Also add the monthy 4k interest cost ie. 50k annually. So in 3 yrs (30k KM), you will save another 1.5 lakh. So I guess you can run for next 5 yrs and you will be in a win win position.
well that depends. I bought a diesel Figo in July 2010 and by now it clocks 25296. This is less than 2 years. If one drives less then certainly petrol is good but if you want to drive more then diesel for sure and again ideally people drive more than they actually predict. Also if you plan to keep a car longer, say 5 years then one need to calculate carefully.
Calculations are done with certain assumptions. With discounts, break even point will increase. Car considered in these calculations is Hatch not C and D segment. For D Segment owner running cost is not big concern due to deep pocket.
Yes..I am absolutely agree with you. Currently I drive around 1000 km pm, but still if I get straight 2 lakhs cash discount than same variant diesel car, i think petrol will be better choise.
1000 km = 78 lt (13 kmpl) which cost me Rs 6000 pm for petrol. (petrol cost rs 78)
1000 km = 59 lt (17 kmpl) which cost me Rs 3000 pm for diesel. (dsl cost rs 50).
2 lakhs extra payment = EMI 4000 pm. (12% Int rate for 5 yrs loan).
Hence in Diesel I am paying each month 3000 + 4000 = 7000, whereas 6000 for petrol.
Also you should consider, maint cost is higher in diesel. Even for turbo engine, you need special attention, to run for a long life without hassle. Also petrol car you cankeep idle easily for long duration, not for diesel.
But if you run more than me and want to keep the car for a very long period, you will be benefitted.
I don't know about tomorrow, so I can't plan for 10 yrs atleast for car. Govt may come with some tax on diesel car and then your breakeven will extend. So I think don't spend more money today for tomorrow.
There are few mistakes in your calculations
1. (1000/13)*78*12 (Months)= 72000 per annum,
2. (1000/17)*46*12 (Months)= 32500
3. Difference/Savings: 197500 (5 years)
Resale of diesel is more due to higher initial cost of the car.
Let me ask, which car is giving you discount of 80 K. Going by this I can assume that Figo petrol Titanium will cost you 4.23 L ex showroom than 5.03 L or 5.02 L for swift ZXI rahter than 5.83 L.
I Don't think this is possible. Please share the details of the discount, car make, model and variant. At the sametime you are assuming that there will not be any discount on diesel i.e. corporate discount etc.
Model Version Price
Figo Petrol TItanium 5.03 L
Diesel Titanium 6.03 L
Swift ZXi 5.83
Figo: 1 L
Swift: 1.07 L
You can factor in EMI for 1 L for five years at 11 % (on an average ROI is in the range of 9-11 % with 5 years of cycle)
Factor in resale value of the car, extra insurance cost, extra maintenance (factor in 4000 per annum for both).
You will get the real picture.
Generate four scenarios for 500, 750, 1000, 1500 kms/ months
MOD WARNING: Please provide the source for the info. Copying information without due attribution to the source is prohibited.
Deepak, thank you for sharing the info but what do you want to communicate, it is well established fact that diesel is dirtier of the two but we are forced to buy cars in first place due to lack of public transport system and very high price differential. In States, diesel and petrol prices differntials (car and fuel) are not steep.
Going thru your calculation for 5 yrs.
Savings in fuel: 2 lakh as you mentioned
Expenditure: 2 lakh extra payment. EMI - 4000 per month ie. 4000*12*5 = 240000. Result: Loss.
Expenditure: 1 lakh extra payment. EMI - 2000 per month ie. 2000*12*5 = 120000. Result: Gain.
Not considered extra money for maintenance cost in diesel.
Now source of the 80K discount: Currently most of the dealer/manufacturer are offering on petrol variants.
Maruti Suzuki SX4: cash disc 25k, exch offer 45k, corp disc - 10k + addl disc 10k = 80k - 90k. Now this depends on your burgain skill also. But there is no discount/offer on any diesel variant, atleast in Kolkata.
Now resale value difference in diesel car will be less if you consider 8 or 9 lakhs + car. If you consider hatchback segment, you will get the demand and price but not in SX4, Vento, Verna....10 lakhs car will be 4 lakhs or less after 5 yrs. And lot of new variant will come by that time...so your money on resale will be on bet. I think we should not think of resale value while buying a car for atleast 5 yrs.
Mt calculation are for hatch. SX4 will give max 8-9 FE and not 13. Recalculate for the repective segment using the matrix provided in the 1st half of the dicussions
Very good analysis. I like the way it is described.
I have recently (1 year) bought an sx4 zxi for 9.3L bangalore. My daily commuting is around 30kms and I spend around 5K for my fuel expenses, with the raising fuel prices, did I miss the diesel SX4? Please advice.
SX4 milage is given from different forum mentioned here. You can check the forum -
SX4 ZXI MY BEST COMPANION FOR ROADS BAD AND GOOD - Maruti Suzuki SX4 User Review by nipunbharti.
Your calculation based on hatch cars whereas my calculations are based on specific to SX4. Maruti is trying to increse the sale of this car (petrol variant) by giving extra discount. If you get all the discount then you will be gainer. This is you can treat as exceptional bonus gain for the petrol lover.
For generic all petrol/diesel calculation, it everyone knows...depends on daily KM run and duration etc.
Very true. One has to be very careful while doing the calculations.
And dont look at today's petrol price alone for doing the calcuations. We need to understand the exponential trend. Those who got Rs.30,000 discount on petrol car happily purchased it some months back and are in soup today!
being a diesel car owner, i am concerned about what our govtnmt might plan in future to 'control' the use of subsidisd diesel by passenger cars other than increasing tax on new cars.
Issues like rationing, shortage, duel pricing etc would make life tuff. I was quite suprised that diesel cost is not incresed. I wont might paying Rs.10 more for hassle free fuel access. Hoping for the best.
I was also expecting a hike of Rs 5 for diesel. Car makers will not be able to increase the price of the diesel car beyond certain point. Even if government impose one time levy on personal/taxi vehicles other than public transport of goods and passanger vehicle, diesel will make sense for the long distance running.
Personally I feel, government should increase the supply of reliable, comfortable and hassle free public transport across the cities in India to stop the galloping car population. Given the choice, I will never opt for a car if I have Metro with last mile connectivity. Solution lies in here and not in diesel v/s petrol. By increasing petrol prices and levy on diesel cars (will happen soon) government is discouraging usage of personal vehicles but simultaneously failed to strengethen the public transport system. JNURM has failed officially.
our main disadvantage is population. This combined with bad infrastructure planning will make public transport always a very tuff option. IMO, the frequency of buses and trains have increased a lot in the last 10 yrs but still due to the population bloom, it is not sufficient. Example, the narrow gauge trains where converetd to the broad gauge trains in Chennai but still it is not sufficient especially during the peak hours. Which is why the masses prefer two wheelers and where possible individul cars.
Options like car pooling, staff buses are more effective where work timings are fixed especially the closing hours like in govt offices.
Which I also supported. Wait for 1-2 years, and petrol cost will change things further ... 500Km will be the turning point.
I THINK THE GOVT IS CONSIDERING A COST INCREASE OF RS 1.7L TO 2.5L ON DIESEL CARS BY SOME TAX INCREASE, INFACT IF IT HAPPENS WE MAY HAVE TO RETHINK BUYING DIESEL CARS AS EVERY THING WILL EVENOUT IN THE END. HOWEVER AS ON DATE THE CALCULATIONS HOLD GOOD. EXCELLENT EFFORT FRIEND.
I have my reservation whether this will happen or not. Lets keep our fingers crossed.
If ithat is likely, those who are planning to buy new diesel car should buy it before end of this financial year.
This decision by govt of incresing by 1.5 to 2.5 lacks will have other impact too. I get a feeling the used diesel car market will raise significantly. Resale value of old diesel cars might fetch higher value all of a sudden, isnt it possible???
Currently the scenario is too biased for diesel (as consumers blindly chose diesel cars for all scenarios) and i feel that the govt is in a catch situation. If they increase diesel fuel price, high impact because of large consumers in the names of vehicles, generators, trucks/vans, autorickshaws, day-to-day consumables by people like us...etc etc
If they increase diesel car price by imposing duty, it puts new car sellers / buyers in perfect catch situation. In a way this scenario might also make car makers to manufacture parts in India rather importing !!! Lets see what happens
I will prefer to wait and watch. Dekhte hai unth (camel) ki karvat bethta hai.
i recently visited toyota showroom & the dealer told me that the car price for diesel cars got revised 5 times in last 12 months, that too all increases above 5% each time due to increasing excise duty & other factors, Diesel cars are now super expensive & i think they will be even more in coming future.
is it true that in U.S.A only commercial vehicles run on diesel & CNG/LPG & rest have to be petrol ones ??
No its not true, price difference between diesel and petrol cehicle is not much, diesel is slightly cheaper than pertol say 5-7 %.
Big Fuel Guzzling SUV's are Diesel
Transmission: By default Automatic, for mannual one have to wait,
Diesel car cost more than petrol but marginally. In recent years due to economic crisis, American market shifted towards frugal cars hence Toyota's, and Honda's started ruling the market, leaving behind GM and Ford.
Thats not true. Big SUVs, large pick-up trucks run on diesel and are owned by regular people like us. Small to meidum size SUV/pickup trucks, cars run on petrol.
Your observation is largely true in USA but '... rest have to be petrol ...' is slightly off the target. Even big size SUVs like Hummer, Lexus, Cadillac etc. are gasoline. Diesel vehicles are used mostly for large initial torque requirement. Largely, diesel cars in USA are German (or European) and hence diesel fuel distribution network is very poor and so is repair. High percentage of diesel MB and BMW were owned by Indians etc. due to their mindset and bias. I may be wrong but I feel most popular diesel car by #, in USA, was VW Rabbit. In contrast to India, USA is a very open system. Country with freedom and choices.
Sometime back, I read a paragraph in a book (book was not about India or JLN), where Foreign Secretary of UK asked Jawahar Lal Nehru that taxes are very high in independent India? To which JLN replied that Indian direct taxation is very low so our indirect taxes are high. Now, our PM, Dr. Man Mohan Singh (PhD, Oxford University) under the able guidance of Honorable Sonia Gandhi has greatly increased the direct tax collection (individual income tax) without decreasing indirect taxes. On Friday (June 22), International crude prices closed at US $78 per barrel and in USA petrol(gasoline) is selling @ $3 per Gallon. May be Indian Govt needs to collect more taxes so they can give US $ 40 Billion subsidy to 2G spectrum companies? I could not believe on Indian Gandhian philosophy and tolerance, even a 40 M(NOT B)illion $ scam in USA will kick the President out in a day.
May God bless India!
Very well said sir. Current state of affairs is pathetic and today the rupee stands at a never before position. Surely, petrol car manufacturers are going to take a strong beating, mainly Naruto and to some extent Hyundai. Also if demand shifts towards diesel, aagain that will lead to shortages in the coming years. Looking at this scenario, I feel its high time we started looking at alternative fuels and reduce dependency on crude imports. Due to rumours of diesel cars getting much expensive, bookings are pouring in. Am not sure where things will end up. One thing I can assure is that our respected government is not showing much interest into the economy. Think they will start rebuilding walls only after the entire roof falls down, if they can survive it.
Hey Guys, As advised I have gone for a Maruti Ritz diesel (VDI - white color), Just wanted to thank you all for advising at the appropriate time and clearing my confusion about the petrol or diesel car!! and your suggestion was boosted by the recent increase of the petrol Prices!!
Thanks all for your suggestions
Congratulations for the new car.
Do post your detailed ownership report once you have driven 2000 kms or so. Will be eagerly waiting as its Ritz.
Right decision. In today's situation, it does not make sense going for petrol car unless the running is very less and not likely to increase in future.
Which music system are you planning to add? You may need to add remote locking system as well (if you are interested).
Hey Guys forgot to tell you I got a cash discount of 20k and also the remote locking system from the vendor itself... Yes it was sensible i guess as I have driven close to 350 Kms just commuting daily to off and some weekend trips Thank God I opted for it!!!
Just a quick doubt the reverse gear doesnt seem to be falling smoothly as the others does not sure if am doing something wrong or any deffect..
Am planning to add a decent music system within my budget of 8-10 k, hope this is enough for a decent buy.. Wish I could add the car pic will try adding it to my profile
THanks for all your suggestions and feedbacks
For smooth reverse gear engagement: wait for 3-4 seconds asfter stoping and then apply, otherwise you will get cracking shound.
After some more running, gear might become smoother.
In 10K you can get 1DIN HU and 4 speakers. If you spend a little more (maybe 14-15K) you can go for 2DIN HU and speakers. 2DIN will look good on Ritz. Go for JBL speakers.
Petrol price will fluctuate on weekly basis if not not daily basis. This will make cost benefit for petrol v/s diesel.
Out of total 7.5 hike, almost 65-70 is taken back. Government is pretty quick in realizing that small hike now and then will take out all the fizz. Seems this strategy is working well so far. What do you say.
And ultimately what we get is increased petrol price every year
End result cost is up by 2-3 % every hike and annually 24-36 % hike. This is pretty immpressive, government is behaving like businessman, hike 7.5, reduce 4.5, "na teri na meri bich ki", effectively 3 Rs hike.
In US fuel price vary on daily basis and from company to company but there is no controlling/subsidy on diesel.
B/w diesel was increase by 38 paisa, no one noticed that amid the noise made by media. This news was brushed under the carpet, though this wasn't significant but still there was a hike or approx 1 %.
They are trying to make fools of people. If they want to increase Rs.X in an year, they will do that anyway. But they will do it in steps, X1, X2, X3 ... (X = X1+X2+X3+...). But to show that they are considerate, for every increment, they will overshoot first and then come back to what they wanted to increase. For example instead of increasing by X1, they will increase by X1+Y1 and then reduce Y1 (effective increase is X1). Similarly for X2 it will be X2+Y2 and then reduce by Y2 etc ... They think we are all fools. The intermediate reductions (Y1, Y2 etc) will keep politicians and fools happy.
We need to only look at the price of petrol at the beginning of the year and the end of the year to see what is the increase over one year.
Absolutely. Lets keep a track of petrol prices in this thread so that we can come back after a year to assess the actual YoY basis increase.
Till now it was pretty simple: I was a petrolhead (and still i am) and my monthly running was not above 600 kms (inclusing daily drives, weekend drives, occasional highway trips etc) It was a no-brainer.Now the trouble begins. My daily running could be as high as 50 kms daily in the near future.Workplace going farther away from my home.So 22 (working days) * 50 = 1100 kms + weekend drives + highway tripsTo put forth my point, lets just say it is 1200 kms per month which definitely warrants a diesel.Now if i were to sell my existing petrol car, i lose out too much on depreciation. Petrol cars resale values are already at rock-bottom, and with petrol price increasing its going to be worse. In the current scenario i'm 100% sure that i wont get a good deal if i sell my car. Add the headache of finding an individual to sell to. No way i'm selling it to a used car dealer: No Sir, been there, done that. I would rather push my car off a cliff. hate to see hard-earned money go to wasteI've searched for used diesel cars and good examples are hard to get. in fact some of our forum members have discouraged against going in for a used diesel. I cannot afford a new diesel car right now, not even the cheapest diesel hatch. Not going in for a used diesel still makes sense ?I mean is it that bad ? I would just use it to go to work and back. No high speed runs, its meant to be a commuter.Lets say i don't want to take the cng route for my existing car, i mean it is a last option when nothing will work out. What say guys ?
Primarily you have a petrol car which has not run much and also will not fetch you much on resale. So there is no other option apart from going in for a CNG retrofit. Let me tell you why -
1. New Diesel is out of budget for you
2. In a used market getting a good and well maintained car will be difficult given the fact that diesel are hot pics and not many are available in the used market
3. you can never be sure about the condition of a used car
4. You will lose a lot if you resell your current car and it would be a double loss (lower amount on your existing car+cost of a new/used diesel)
Best option is to opt for a good CNG retrofit. All you will lose is somewhere around 30-60k on the kit and some boot space but apart from that you will have your own car which you have been maintaining with no loss on depreciation. This is my take on it
I will advise you to retain your petrol car and get CNG kit. You can get sequential kit for 65 K. I am assuming that city where you are based have CNG and resale of petrol is really bad at the moment.
Used cars can be bad (irrespective of fuel type) but one need to get a good deal.
Go for CNG and save capital at the moment and can upgrade later on.
Yes +1 to Sidh and Sridhar. Well you may also think about LPG as an option which would come out cheaper than petrol if not CNG and the cost of instalation would be less than 50% of CNG. Sequencial kit would be best but with your kind of usage even and high quality normal kit would still be good.
@Dwarika,I have used a LPG Esteem for 3 years, I've already explored that option. Whatever savings it has on paper, and for reasons best known to me, i wont be going in for it again. Lets drop LPG out of the picture. I wont list the -ve's I faced; this thread is not the place.
@brandooi hope you agree that LPG/CNG takes the fun out of driving, You will also agree that a factory-fit CNG is any day much, much better than after-market. I wish i had opted for the WR CNG but i took a decision in a hurry. the wagonr is not much fun-to-drive and adding a CNG will kill whatever little is in it.What i don't get it is: Instead of spending 60k+ on a CNG kit, i leave my existing car as it is.I invest 2.5 Lakhs in a used diesel and keep 50k as a spare to incur any repairs (apart from the usual maintainence) How does that sound ? Any cheap to run diesel car will do. I dont care about taxi image or 0-100 timings or anything else. I'll be using it like a donkey, A to B, B to A.Wont a used indica (not a yellow plate) do the work ? I'm ready to invest some money in hiring the service of a good mechanic in evaluating the car.
Let me give you some information on new Wagon R CNG:
I advised friend of mine, he is happy with the car, reported drop in power when running on CNG though marginally. Factory fitted will be always very good but If you can get it from Maruti dealer, it will be a good deal.
People don't sell diesel without issue read accident, engine, suspension problem or some other repeat issues. If you want to buy, explore all the dimensions, get it inspected by some trusted mechanic.
In my views, with your usage, you do not need to sacrifice on NVH and should persist with current wagon R with CNG kit. Rest is your choice mate.
I agree 100% with you, Sidh. I dont doubt the savings thru CNG. But even that marginal drop in power will make the car a boring one to drive. Not for everyone, but for someone like who has downgraded from a car like Esteem. I had a LPG kit on my Esteem, and i hardly used to drive on LPG. Why ? The drive used to feel like someone is holding my car back. It was like letting the air out of a balloon and then giving it to a child to play. Really ripped it on petrol. Sadly, i do the same with my new car too. I know its not a car meant to rip the road, but whatever fun is in there will be lost with CNG. Not to mention loss of boot space.Till a week ago i was searching for a powerful fun-to-drive(read delight to push thru curves) cars likeFiesta 1.6/Mitsu Cedia. I had determined to buy a good used one, darn the petrol prices.Then i got a news that my office will be moving away and the daily round trip will be 50 kms. The same day i dropped all these plans to buy a FTD car.One indicab driver whom i know suggested to buy a used indicab for 2.5 and spend 50k on repairs to make it perfect. Suspensions/body repair is not an issue. It can be done in a resonable money.Anyway, sorry for the long post and going way off-topic. Thanks for the inputs guys, i'll think over it for now.
If you get good cedia, get CNG, car will still pull like rocket. 2000 CC engine
^^ Sidh good idea! Seriously.
Used Cedia with 50-60 kms on Odo will be available in the rangeof 2.5-3 L.
Briliant engine, robust, reliable, less electicals, car is amazing, simply blast to drive.
I have to agree on loss of power. I used to drive a LPG FIAT (Padminee) years back and also have driven LPG OMNI several times and I could feel a LOT of power difference between LPG mode vs. Petrol with the Padmini and not much with the OMNI but I am sure difference would be higher on Esteem. I was an esteem user and I used to rip it all the time and I really really loved it. Now I drive Figo diesel and am a sedate driver in city though the cruise speed is always higher as compared to Esteem.
I would agree with Sidh about power with CNG but again the price is equivalent to that of a diesel. I have no practical experience with TATA cars but with feedback from friends I am always sceptical about TATA cars and Bajaj Bikes. Unless you personally know the history of a car, it may not be feasible. Also the driveability may be pathetic on an Indica.
If by any chance you can get one from a friend or a relative who is planning to upgrade his diesel then that would be best (even if its after 6 months) what I feel. Another thought is if any of your friend or relative or known person has the same car as yours (am curious to know your car model) but fitted with LPG then you can test drive and see the difference. It would still be low on power over Petrol but there would be no turbo lag (like diesel) and you would be able to continue with present car with minimal extra cost. But yes if the cost of running would not remain comparable with diesel then it may not be a practical idea.
Yep, you got it, after going thru many forums/test drive reports and a short test drive the Cedia has taken over my head. I'm not doing justice to the poor wagonr by my 'spirited driving' everyday.I'm a bit sceptical about retrofitting, but as you said I will explore that option.The last lpg kit i used had so many issues, which left a bad taste.Whats your opinion on fitting a cng kit into an old Maruti 800 ? I have one lying unused, and wont think twice to experiment with it.
I dont doubt the savings thru CNG. But even that marginal drop in power will make the car a boring one to drive.
That should not be an issue for using it like a donkey, A to B, B to A.
In donkey mode, yes it should not be an issue. But I know for sure, I have that option to turn the donkey mode off, and then... Rrrip it. Just like it happened in my old Esteem.Now i know that its more of a mind control issue, but I hope you get my point.
Got it! Addiction, to be precise!!
Maybe you can keep that switch somewhere else (eg: under the hood) where you need to get out of the car when the CNG gets over and you need to switch to petrol mode.
CNG appears to be the best option considering your running. If your running were much higher, a new diesel car could have been justified.
Yep, thats the problem of downgrading to a car thats of lesser CC and has a cylinder less. I knew all these things but still bought a wagonr. Looks like the last option is the only option. I have opened a thread for a good CNG retrofitter in the cng conversions section, awaiting replies now.
(am curious to know your car model)
It is a WagonR-K10 which i bought in 2010.Sorry, i noticed you post late
Yes that sounds good. CNG though would have less power would be a better option for now. Later (after few years) after driving this car enough and getting the profit out of the CNG, you can opt for a powerful diesel.
I found your logic a bit wiered. Second hand diesel won't be a rocket. If you are ready to accept SH diesel then what's harm in using CNG (read little loss of power).
Yes, the logic is a bit quirky, not werid. I'm not looking for a diesel rocket. At the same when i go in for CNG and feel the need for immediate acceleration, all it takes is to reach out for that switch, flip it to petrol and rip. This happened too many times before.But i'm sure you must have seen some naturally aspirated indicas (without turbo) being ripped by these call-center cabbies. I mean if i can get a used one, (of course, i wont drive like a madman) for just around 2 Lakhs and keep 50k as expense ?Is this idea so bad ?? See , the 1200 kms of running is minimum. It could be more than that.
Idea is not bad but just difficult to find used diesel in good condition for 2 L. Cheapest would be Indica. Someone whom I know, bought used Indica Diesel in 180000 with 80K on odo 5 year back and Its still serviing him well but maintenance is little high.
Hey Folks, Have been following this since the start and ultimately took a Diesel. I already have an SX4 which was very well maintained. I never used the car to commute as I have a RE Bullet. Now my workplace shifted about 30Kms from where I live. My to & fro is about 62kms everyday and that is if i do not move to other offices during the day. Even the bullet mileage started pinching. I decided to get my SX4 off and take a diesel Duster.. I was shocked to hear the resale value. They offered me 3.5lacs for a 2007 aug. My car is brilliantly maintained and driven 60k. I use only Synthetic oil imported from Singapore and all other oils are changed well before time.
I did retain my old car and went for the new one. I will use the SX4 may be for those parties I go to and It would anyways serve as a second car at home for my wifey to go around if she wants to.
Ford Figo is my Diesel Car that i went for. Brilliant buy and amazing mileage. I clocked about 1000 odd kms and the first fill that i did gave me an impressive 20kmpl. I am to fill the tank today. Will have to see what is the mileage I could get. The Distance to Empty meter shows about 18kmpl but that is relative and would want to see what the actual is.
Looks like a good decision.
You can use SX4 as a family car which will obviously have less running. And for daily commuting, there is no point in going for a big car for one or two passengers(except from the safety point of view - big cars are generally safer). Also moving around in traffic is always easier in a hatchback.
Congratulations on the buy. Figo is a wonderful car and you are going to love it for long.
Cpngratuations for sensible buy.
SX4 owner buying Figo and showring praise is testimony of car's qualities at the price point.
I am sure there are wonderful cars available in the market but then cost does matter.
Just went thru this post and found it really interesting. This is the general dilema in all the car buyers now a days.
Do you really need a diesel?
Source: Autocar India
MOD WARNING - Vaibhav, you have been warned in the past as well about opening new threads on existing topics. Going forth such duplicate threads will be deleted without any warning
Read the news in todays Mumbai edition of Hindustan Times. Diesel cars will be expensive by 50000 to 125000 after the union budget 2013-14. Now all my plans to buy a diesel i20 in April-May have gone haywire. Will have to prepone it or settle for a petrol car. Whats your say on this hike guys?
MOD WARNING - Search for any existing threads on a particular topic before opening a new thread. Do go through the forum rules before posting
Added to that Diesel fuel price will also go up. SO may neutralize. Still many are confused to whether to go for diesel or petrol cars especially when the usage is more.
Thank you Vaibhav for brining this here, it is a very good article, Now with the price of Diesel likely to go up by the week end or so, by three to five rupees, The article is timed very well. once i and Karan were discussing in a similar thread that a day will come when we will get more discounts for Diesel cars as compared to petrol cars, for people like me who have been postponing my third car for quite some time it may be a boon. Incidentally your name Vaibhav is excellent.
Check the link o TOI as well. They have an analysis of this. There is also an article on our very own carwale.
Though i fully agree with you that the existing threads should be used, you must also agree that it is a general human tendency to take a short route though not correct.
Thats is why we need MODs on the forums. If people did not take shorter routes then the MODERATORs in most formum would be an extinct species as the members would be moderating themselves
Diesel cars are inherently for heavy duty (more running), no point parking a diesel car with less than 1000 kms per month. No point buying a car less than 300 kms a month. Hence case for diesel/petrol/CNG cars is very complicated.
Companies are charging primium on diesel cars at the moment, if govt. levy extra tax on diesel, them primium should come down otherwise diesel models will be doomed. Looking at the investments made by companies in capacity enhancement for diesel car's, this will be last thing they want.
Hence effective price difference will remain 15-25% (depending on segment superb diesel command primium of 3 L over 19L petrol to swift Zdi commanding primium of 1.5 L over ZXi) and companies will absorb the part of it.
Even at the current price point, those who are running more (1200 kms), and intend to keep car for 5 year or more, can opt for diesel. If someone has running in the range of 700-1200 kms per month, should opt for CNG model (diffrence of 60K over petrol) and below that petrol.
Someone with potential running of less than 300kms should not buy car at all, its waste of money, resources and doesn't make economic sense at all. I have already provided calculations. We can remodel it using the current price of fuel ratio will remain more or less same.
Was just wondering about this after the deregulation of diesel prices. I know this means that diesel prices would be dependent on international crude oil prices but still What consequences this would have? Would diesel be always cheaper than Petrol?
Please excuse my knowledge on this topic .
Your thread title and thread post are two different topics of discussion.
About your thread title. It all depends upon usage of car. Even rate of petrol and diesel comes to similar price point; needless to mention that diesel engines render more kms per litre. The only matter remains is initial price difference.
For me, if both are priced at similar price I would choose Diesel because I love the thurst produced by Diesel engine and a petrol SUV will give half mileage of Diesel SUV.
The most important pont here is the price difference between petro and diesel versions of the same cars.
The new diesel engines are not really expensive to make as their petrol counterparts. A difference of 20-40K is still justifiable. If the fuel prices are deregulated, the government should take steps to curb this blatant extortion by OEMs.
Till then, the petrol-diesel boundary for me will be about 1500kms a month.
MOD NOTE: Threads merged. Search the forums for existing threads before opening a new one.