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#51 13-Oct, 2010 01:02 AM
Karan Bhatia
Long-termer
Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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Since your amp will be a 2ch amp and won't be too powerful or used to run a subwoofer, I suggest you save money on the power kit for now. Get 4 gauge power cable from Havells or polycab or Finolex or L&T etc. These power cables though used for domestic use are no different from the cheap power kits that are commonly available like Boss or Caliber etc. These in fact have higher copper content and are oxygen free than the cheap power kits and are more than enough for a single amp setup that too with a moderately powered amp. You can get a fuse holder and a fuse for about Rs. 100. The professional and branded power kits like Scosche, Kicker, Stinger, Audison however are very high grade and tailor made for powerful and multi amp setups. I too am using Finolex 4 gauge power cable for both ground and power in my i10's single amp setup with a fuse holder and 50 ampere fuse. No problems at all.

Such a cost saving is though not at all recommended for a multi-amp or powerful amp install.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#52 13-Oct, 2010 10:46 PM
Rubal
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Joined Date: 20 May 2008
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 171
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Hi Karan,

Today i went to a different shop just to explore the variation in pricing. After the discussion with the dealer- Punjab Auto Line located at sec- 28 in chd, he recommended some modfications in the setup. He recommended Infinity speakers for the rear saying that they produce better effect as compared to JBL 948 series plus 948 series have got some problem with the functioning of the in built tweeters. He also advised me to go for a 4 channel amp rather than a 2 channel one & he recommended Alpine 4- channel as it was fitting my budget. I will mention the prices he quoted & would want a favour from you if you could check the pricing their at amritsar for the same setup.

I also went to another dealer & their incidentally i got to see the speakers- JBL ones. They were plain coaxial speakers for the front. However, their was a sticker pasted specifying "MADE IN CHINA".I do not think that JBL's are made in china. So does it mean they were duplicate ones. Or to put it straight how can we differentiate between originals & duplicates? Their was a second hand sony woofer also available with box for mere 700 bucks which my friend got fitted in his swift & was sounding good till the time i was in his car. Since the dealer knew him so he got it fitted for trial only for the next 4-5 days. Though the woofer looks old but the output was decent enough. I got inclined towards it since the price is not too high. What do u say?

Details of prices as quoted:

Pioneer 5250 HU: 6950/-

Front JBL608: 4300/-

Rear Infinity: 4700/- or JBL 948: 3700/-

Alpine 4- channel amp: 3000/- (Dealer claims duplicate one comes around 2600/- not too sure)

Wiring kit: 750/-

Tray: 300/- (Dealer says company fitted tray in i10 willnot support the weight of rear speakers)

Installation: 250/-

Socket: 150/-

& 300/- for something which i do not remember: Miscellaneous

Woofer (Sony Explode second hand with box): 700/- in case if you give me the green signal for the same

Total: 20,400/-



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#53 13-Oct, 2010 11:36 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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Rubal all the prices seem ok but the Alpine amplifier is surely and most definitely fake. It is also marketed as Sound Barrier. There is no 4 ch amp below 5k which was the price of the Kenwood 8401 in grey market. Stay away from that 'Alpine' amp. Even Sony 4 ch amps are much better.

I would say stick to the 2ch amp plan as it is more than sufficient for now. JBL GT5 4 channel amp will cost you about 7000-8000 while kenwood will be lesser. As for the Sony woofer, it makes sense only if you are going to run it from an amplifier. Running it from the jbl 2 ch amp will give you good output but then you will be loosing out on the true potential of the JBL components. You can buy the woofer and use it later with the 2 ch amp when you get a 4 channel amp if you find it a good deal and suiting your ears.

My JBL coaxials are also made in china. Don't worry. As long as you get a warranty card you can be assured they are real. Infinity speakers are made in Israel though and are slightly better than JBL but you find the difference noticable if you run both off the head unit. JBL GTO948 is a very good speaker and more than adequate to run from the head unit. There is no problem at all with the built in tweeter. If that were the case then they would not be present in the market as JBL is a very reputed brand.

I must say I have not come across any current model of Infinity 6x9 coaxials that cost less than 6000 so please ensure they are real by checking the warranty card and hologram on the box. You can check www.indiajbl.com and crosscheck the models and get an idea of the market price by looking the MRP given on the website. Your dealer seems to be either selling you fake or old model infinity speakers. 

Once again stay away from the 4k alpine amp. It is surely a fake.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#54 14-Oct, 2010 08:47 PM
Rubal
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Joined Date: 20 May 2008
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 171
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Hi Karan,

The prices which i mentioned are without bill prices. Will try to get the B&W prices from the dealer tommorow. Seems my budget is bound to cross 20k. I know i will not be adding anything in the future so would prefer to get the things installed once for all



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#55 14-Oct, 2010 09:11 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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Then I would suggest the following. If you are satisfied with the sony woofer that you were getting for 700 then keeping that in mind this is what I would go for :

JBL GTO608C : 4300

JBL GT5-S644-4ch amp : 8000(max price in my opinion so please confirm)

Sony Xplod woofer : 700

Pioneer 5250 : 7000

RCA Cables : 500

Wiring kit : Go for the standard home use power cables with sparate fuse holder and fuse that I recommended above.

Run the components and the subwoofer from the 4 channel amp. Front for the components and rear bridged for the woofer. After this equipment and installation if you can go for rear speakers then get not really high end speakers and use them with the head unit only. This setup will make you system more than sufficient and should cost you not more than 25k I guess. As for one time expenditure well then brother be ready to feel the need to upgrade in the future. It is something that comes the instant you go for a good system.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#56 14-Oct, 2010 10:00 PM
Rubal
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Location: Chandigarh
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Karan any recommendation from the Kenwood family for the amp. Came to know their is one amp from kenwood which is VFM. Earlier it was 8401 nd now i suppose its 8404 model. Kindly confirm?



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#57 14-Oct, 2010 10:36 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
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You are absolutely right. Kenwood products are very VFM. Their head units have almost all features that you would find in head units costing more than even 25k at a price of 11k.

8401 in grey market was sold for as low as 5k which is what i paid for mine. 8404 is the successor and better looking and performs better as well. It is a better alternative to the JBL 4 ch amp if you can get it at a lower price whether grey or with bill and warranty. Highly recommended. I have no plans to part with my 8401 which has been used in almost all of my cars and looks like it can go on forever. 8404 should be even better.

Go for it if it is available at a good price.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#58 19-Oct, 2010 05:58 AM
Aswin.S
New Arrival
Joined Date: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 10
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Hi alpine amp will cost you more in the range of 10,000/- + as its wattage will be precise than any other brands. i do have an Alpine player with me with JBL GTO 936, 6*9 oval, fitted in my car in 2006. Its working finw with excellent audio outs. Infinity speakers are costly and they do sound better than JBL. If you have any friends abroad please do get it through them. ie in UAE u will get the required models at reasonable rates.



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#59 19-Oct, 2010 06:10 AM
Aswin.S
New Arrival
Joined Date: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 10
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  • Hi karan your words are true in all respects...keep moving yaar, all the best


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#60 23-Oct, 2010 05:49 PM
Rubal
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Joined Date: 20 May 2008
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 171
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Hi Karan,

The post is primarily meant to appreciate your genuine help & expert advice in finalising the setup for my i10. Got my Hyundai i10 yesterday from Car Life (Sector- 28, Chandigarh).The details are mentioned below. The set- up was finalised after days of research, discussions with Karan & after going through various posts related to audio set-up at TeamBhp. Yesh their have been few changes to the original setup as thought about like the selection of Amp, Rear Speakers etc.

HU: Pioneer 5250: 6800/- (Without Bill)

Front Components :JBL 608C: 4500/-(with B & W)

Rear Coaxials: Infinity Reference: 4800/-(with B & W)

Amplifier: JBL GT5- S644: 5700/- (with B & W)

Wiring: Scosche 6.5mm: 1800/-(With B & W)

Tray: 350/- (Wooden)

Labour: 250/-

Wooden Circular Platforms for mounting of Components on the front doors: 190/-

One RCA Lead: 400/-

Fog Lamps: 600/-

Total: 25490/-

Paid: 25290/-

The wiring & installation was satisfactory, the only thing which didnot go my way was the placement of Amp under the Co- passenger seat. I wanted it to be placed on the back side of the rear seat. Not too sure why the electrician placed it under the seat though it was done very very neatly. The sound quality has been good rather its exceptionally good. Components are a must on the front. They really cater well to high volume



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#61 23-Oct, 2010 05:52 PM
Tata2010
New Arrival
Joined Date: 23 Oct 2010
Posts: 1
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Bit one is suppose to have issues with output, the ones's that are selling are manufactured in 2008 that are having the issues.

Temporary Van Insurance



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#62 23-Oct, 2010 05:59 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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Congrats dude. That is an awesome setup and the prices are just too good specially the 4ch amp. 

Really happy I could help you out. As for the placement of the amp, it is ok under the seat though even I would always prefer the placement behind the rear seats to protect from dust and feet of rear passengers hitting the amp.

But enough of small things. As long as it sounds good its perfect.  i did not one RCA lead though. Are you powering just the components from the amp or both front and rear speakers ? 

Make sure the Gains on the amp are not set to full. Keep them about 1/4th i.e. at about 9'o clock position. Keep the Head unit on flat and try not to use Sound Retriever and Loud feature of the Pioneer. Hear the music as it was meant to be when it was recorded.

Tune the amp rather than the head unit as the head unit has very limited capabilities as far as tuning is concerned.

Enjoy you ICE brother. Keep us updated on your experience with it and feel free to ask for any help regarding the tuning. 

***Be ready for upgrades*** ;)




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#63 23-Oct, 2010 06:41 PM
Rubal
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Joined Date: 20 May 2008
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 171
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Hi Karan,

Nice to see your post that too so quick. Well bro i am not too sure about the amp settings as the electician did everything & when i thought of checking it there it became very stormy & then it rained badly. Hope it must have been the same at amritsar too. Would wash the car tommorow & clean the interiors & would also have a look at the amp settings. Then would upgrade you about the same.

I have set the HU settings the sound retriever on Level 1. It did make a difference to the sound quality obviously better. Is it not good to make use of sound retriever? As far as loudness is concerned i suppose its off. Will check not sure. Any idea as to how to adjust the time & date in the pioneer 5250 HU?



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#64 23-Oct, 2010 06:48 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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Ya it rained here as well. Made the weather quite chilly.

If sound retriever sounds good then keep it on 1. It's just my personal choice that I use sound retriever only in a non-amplified setup or weak amp. I prefer to keep the 'effects' of head unit to minimum. But your ears and the thing in between them is the best judge.

to adjust the time & date press the SRC button for few seconds till the head unit turns off. Then press the select knob or the centre knob and you will get the settings for date, time, demo etc. This is the ame procedure for all Pioneer head units.

What a coincidence it is that you complete your setup and I order my speakers on the same day.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#65 23-Oct, 2010 06:50 PM
Rubal
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Joined Date: 20 May 2008
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 171
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Great karan. So what have you ordered for? I mean for the speaker set- up. Would revert back after a while. Gotta go somewhere but do let me know about your choice.



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#66 23-Oct, 2010 07:03 PM
Karan Bhatia
Long-termer
Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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I am going for Alpine. The Infinity components will be going in my i10 on the kenwood 8401. Wonderful components for their price. The i10 currently has Auditor components which I will use in my Ritz with the Head Unit only.

Rubal try experimenting with the tweeter level adjustment on the crossover of the components. I have come across lot of people who like the tweeter better with either of the settings. So you have another small but effective tuning option with you. It should be a switch which lets you select the volume level between 0db and I am guessing -3db or -6db. Also the position of tweeter makes a lot of difference. It can be pointed at you if it is not sharp or upwards if you find it a bit sharp or the right tweeter pointed towards the passenger and left towards the driver in case tweeters are placed in A-Pillar.

Don't mean to confuse you with all these things but these will help you develop your own sense and understanding of various factors of ICE which are based not only on the type and quality of equipment but how you use them. Should keep you busy as well on sunday mornings till you upgrade your setup.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#67 23-Oct, 2010 08:25 PM
Rubal
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Joined Date: 20 May 2008
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 171
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Well buddy i would love to be busy ;-) You have been an unknown friend & feels good to find a new friend that too on carwale. I would have loved to change the volume level on my tweeters but the electrician has placed the crossovers inside the space wherein he has fixed the HU. And to make the things worse i even did not check what setting he has made on the crossovers. Now i cannot do much about it.

Thankfully i have changed the time & date of the HU. It was easy & it became easier after getting to know the process in a detailed & systematic way thanks to you. Waise the electrician has customised the equaliser settings as per my requirements though at times i find them to be too brite. Acha any idea regarding the infinity reference speakers as again on them we have got a switch to set the adjustment at 0db or -3db. What is this all about?

And your post sort of confused me. Are yu going for the Alpine HU? Infinity components are really good but i suppose they are costlier than JBL ones. Rite na? And are you going for the reference ones or the kappa ones? And also let me know about your i10 configuration. Ok?



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#68 23-Oct, 2010 08:40 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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The adjustment switch makes a difference in sound only in case of components and not so much in case of co-axials. Keep them on 0db as default. As for the equaliser settings ... even i used to customise them but slowly learnt that it is best to keep it on flat for the most natural and unsynthetic sound.

Sorry for the confusing post. Me and my dad use verna and i10. I take verna in morning to college as it is on highway and dad takes verna in evening. I have ordered Alpine components for the verna which currently has Infinity reference components. 

After I install the new speakers in verna, the infinity speakers will go in the i10. i10 has Auditor components which I will shift to Ritz and run them from the head unit only.

i10 configuration is as below

Pioneer 5190 :8k

Auditor RIP-165S Components : 3600

Alpine SPG-69C3 Coaxials : 4200

Kenwood 8401 : 5k

MDF board (high-grade) : 800

Scosche RCA (3m , 4ch) :700

Finolex 8 gauge power and ground cable : not sure of the price.

60 Ampere fuse and fuse holder : 100

No woofer as of now but planning for a simple JBL CS-1205 for 2200 without bill or warranty and maybe 1000 bucks for the sealed enclosure. Will use the rear speakers with the head unit and use 4 ch amp for the sub and components.

EDIT: Dude if you wear a turban then it would be better to keep the switch on components on higher setting and on lower one if not   as JBL GTO608C tend to sound a bit bright but nothing that cannot be fine tuned. A small compromise for the detailed sound at their price.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
Last Updated: 23-Oct, 2010 08:42 PM, by karan3399
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#69 23-Oct, 2010 08:47 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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As for the Reference and Kappa models well I found the Kappa components a bit more harsh and bright compared to Reference but this comparison is not fair as my amp and tuning were not at all proper when i auditioned them both.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#70 01-Dec, 2010 03:10 PM
George
Long-termer
Joined Date: 27 May 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 170
Likes: 1

Hi Karan, As per your advice earlier in this thread I'm heading to EVO this weekend. I'm confused what brands to suggest him, can you help me with this? I heard Kicker/Focal are good ones than JBL. I own a 5190 HU and I need to suggest speakers and (amp if required and don't want a sub). Basically as everyone does I'm looking out for a best quality music- For example If I listen to Eagles - Hotel California song, i should get the effects of "guitar" "drums" etc clearly and with good effect. I listen more of English songs. With this picture in mind please help suggesting the speaker brands.



Last Updated: 01-Dec, 2010 03:12 PM, by Joes77
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#71 01-Dec, 2010 07:31 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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Hi Joes, You can talk to Mr. Satyajit at EVO and can take my name as well but be sure to mention to him that I am from Amritsar. He will guide you better than what I can.

Judging from your choice of music which happens to be pretty similar to mine, I would suggest you to try going for brands which are not too sharp as American or general English house of music does tend to be more partial towards the music and beats rather than the vocals.

Auditor, Boston Acoustics, Focal, Alpine, Rockford Fosgate are some brands which I have heard have less sharpness compared to JBL, Infinity, Kicker etc. but a good tuning will let you have your choice of sound from almost any brand of speakers. Focal are a bit expensive but will be best in my opinion and deserve to be run on a really good amplifier rather than the head unit.

But to be honest, if you run them from the head unit, you will never notice the difference as they will never play to their potential. Let me know your car and budget as well. Will be easier to suggest brands and models. Otherwise Mr. Satyajit is the best person to go to. Go a bit early as his place tends to crowd up very soon.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#72 02-Dec, 2010 12:15 AM
George
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Joined Date: 27 May 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 170
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Thanks, I don't mind putting an amp as well to get the speakers' best. My budget is ~(12-15) for speakers and amp let me know whether this amount would be less, I have a HU already (DEH 5190). Also I'd prefer good cables as well. Car is Hyundai Accent 2000 model (GLE)



Last Updated: 02-Dec, 2010 12:21 AM, by Joes77
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#73 02-Dec, 2010 02:13 AM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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You can get an Auditor RIP-4280 4ch amp for less than 7k I suppose but only EVO can confirm the prices. JBL GT5 and Kenwood also fall in the same price bracket. Used amps though a bit hard to come by at shops also make a good deal on a budget.

For entry level amps you can use any mediocre quality installation kit without worrying. Get good quality RCA cables though. They really make a difference. Kicker, Scosche, Stinger, Rockford, should be easily available. Scosche is the best value for money and really good quality as well. Go for the e2 variant of Scosche.

If you stretch your budget by say 5k or 6k (inclusive of enclosure and wiring kit) you can easily add a decent sub to the setup like a Rockford Prime 12" sub if you want. You really will like the music when the low frequencies are played by a sub. I am using the same one.

Here is what a good SQ setup would be like :

Head Unit : Already have that

4CH Amp :Auditor RIP-4280 or Kenwood or JBL GT5-S644 ~7K approx

Front components : Auditor, Rockford, JBL, Infinity, Boston, Kicker ~ 4K TO 8K

SUB : Rockford Prime ~ 3.2K approx ( very value for money sub ... not many entry level subs from JBL, Pioneer etc can match this )

Enclosure, Wiring kit, RCA cables : approx 3K

I would say that for 22k you can have a really really good system. You can go for rear co-axial speakers if you do not prefer a sub so choose accordingly but in sedan a sub really enhances a sound since the rear speakers cannot substitute for a sub as in a hatchback to some extent.

Do talk to Mr. Satya about other options as he will surely have more brands than what I have mentioned and many more configurations that will suit your budget and listening taste.

After getting your desired system, try and spend a bit on the damping part as well when possible. Trust me it is the most value for money upgrade you can have for your car audio system and does wonders to the sound. Only if you damp the front doors as I have in my car, it will take the sound to a whole new level.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
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#74 02-Dec, 2010 09:13 AM
George
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Joined Date: 27 May 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 170
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That was a great advice. I will talk to Satya and post the updates, Cheers



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#75 02-Dec, 2010 04:36 PM
Dhanapal
Driven
Joined Date: 18 Nov 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 40
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Hi Karan, I am getting my swift VXI delivered next week. I have my ICE configuration for swift and i have got a quotation for the same

Pioneer 3290 DVD : 8700

Front Polk Component DB6501 : 6400

Rear Polk Speakers DB651 : 3450

JBL 4-Ch Amplifier GT5-644 : 5500

JBL 12'' Sub CS1204 : 3850

Scosche Wiring kit : 1500

Speaker spacer : 150

Wiring kit : 150

                    The above is for the audio. kindly let me know whether the configuration and the price are ok. I listen to Loud music with thump up bass.

Extra accessories :

3M Sun Control film ( for doors and rear) : 2500

Skoda horn : 1100

Guradian Remote Lock : 2600

Philips halogen bulb 100/90 : 950

Reverse parking sensor: 2600.

                 All the above are with Bill and Gurantee....



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#76 02-Dec, 2010 06:29 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Joined Date: 08 Jul 2010
Location: Amritsar
Posts: 117
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Hi Dhanpal, you are getting everything at great prices dude. Please let me know the city and dealer you are getting these from as the GT5 amplifier for 5.5K is a awesome deal. But there are a few changes I would recommend.

Head unit : Pioneer 3290 does not support DVD playback. Also this head unit is not right if you want to get the maximum from your subwoofer as it can control only the front and rear speakers through an amplifier. Using it to run a sub will not give you the right type of bass. Change it to something that has 3 pre out as it allows for maximum control as well as upgrade chances in future. Try the 5190. It's one of the best head units out there and should cost you the same without bill and warranty though.

Another good option would be the new head units from JBL. There are 2 models which have the features that you need for a really good setup. 3 RCA pre-out with full control of iPod, Aux etc.

Wiring Kit : Scosche makes great wiring kits. If you want to spend on that it is fine. Even I am using it. But the GT5 is not a very high power amplifier. You can do with wiring kits such as Boss etc which cost about 500 bucks. A set of good RCA cables from scosche should cost another 500 bucks.

Polk Audio components: Polk speaker used to be really good few years back. The current line of speakers though are good considering the price. They do go loud .. very loud in fact .. but while going loud they also loose out on the clarity and quality of sound a lot more than other brands do. If you can stretch your budget a bit then Infinity makes a better option. Infinity Reference 6030c go really loud but do not loose the quality as much as the Polk do. But all depends on your ears in the end. Choose what you feel suits your listening taste better.

JBL Sub: I would recommend the Rockford Fosgate R1S412 over the JBL CS1204. It costs about the ame but is miles ahead of the JBL in terms of kicking and thumping bass. Get a really good sealed box according to the size given in the manual. You will not regret this sub. Performs awesome in hatchback cars like swift.

I understand that you will use the amplifier for the front speakers and the sub and run the rear speakers from the head unit. Try to mount the amplifier in the back for easy tuning and installation. Run the power cable and the RCA + speaker wire from opposite sides of the vehicle. Keep the Ground wire as short as possible.

Swift is one of the best cars for a car audio system. It also suffers from a lot of rattles specially with a setup as good as yours. Spend on the damping of the front doors specially after or during your setup gets installed. It will turn the quality of the sound to a whole new level specially with the front speakers. and the sub.




A seat belt or a helmet can give you the chance of seeing your family again. DRIVE SAFE !!
Last Updated: 02-Dec, 2010 06:32 PM, by karan3399
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#77 02-Dec, 2010 07:03 PM
Dhanapal
Driven
Joined Date: 18 Nov 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 40
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Hi Karan,

         Great explanation. I am put up in chennai, i got two quotations one from G.B road, chennai and another from a whole sale distributor. The price mentioned below is of the whole sale dealer,who is supplying accessories to authorised dealers. Got his contact through my friend.

        I will check with the audio guy whats the price of Infinity comp and Rockford Fosgate R1S412, The best part is, he has made my Installation free and he promised me that he will do all the set up in my Home itself..So Sweet of Him Tongue out...



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#78 02-Dec, 2010 07:33 PM
Dhanapal
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Joined Date: 18 Nov 2010
Location: Chennai
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Hi Karan, I spoke with the Guy, he said that Pioneer 5190 is not available. The DVD options available are 3290 and 4190. 4190 is costing you around 40,800. he said he will try 5190 for me, hope ill positively.

Infinity 6030 comp : 4800

infinity rear speakers : 3100

                  He is advising me to go with JBL sub as its VFM, he advised me for JBL CS1204. And for amplifies, what do you suggets. i asked him for suggestions he said pioneer amp costing aroung 6800..

                 Regarding Damping he said its not that necessary, but if i insist he will do it as it would cost 3000 bucks for front windows alone Undecided He says he has done many cars with the same configuration and none has complained...

                



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#79 02-Dec, 2010 07:47 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Front Windows ??? I hope he meant the front doors and at 3000 I hope he uses Dynamat Xtreme which is the best around. For 3000 I got my front doors damped with 3 layers of NoiseKill and it is really good. Damping does not mean it is to be used only if you feel there is a problem with the sound. It actually enhances the sound a lot if done properly. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=262201&id=580504380 is the link for my damping pics.

Stick with the JBL amp. It is really good and will drive the components well. Price for the Infinity speakers is too good dude. You will not get a better deal. As for he JBL sub, well it is certainly better than entry level products from Pioneer, Sony Xplod etc but the Rockford is in a league of it's own. I am using it in my i10 giving it 180W and it is giving my back a proper massage. 

See hatchbacks are by default suitable for bass heavy systems. But the choice of sub matters a lot here. Rockford in a sealed box will give you the perfect balance with the kick and low bass while JBL will give a bit of booming effect with the low bass. I have used it before i got the Rockford. It costs same as JBL.

As for the DVD head units, get them only if you need video in your car else 5190 .. 7150 .. JBL GT-X555 will be more than enough. Even Pioneer 6050UB double din is a good option as it has option to switch controls between the rear speaker or the subwoofer depending on what you power through the amplifier.




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#80 02-Dec, 2010 08:08 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Another thing I must tell you is that components from Polk, Infinity, Kicker, JBL tend to sound a bit sharp through the tweeter. Focal, Alpine, Rockford, DLS etc are milder but also cost above 10k to 12k easily.

Choose the position of the tweeters according to what suits your ears. I have placed the Infinity tweeters flat on the dash. You can try pointing them towards the opposite listener i.e. right tweeter facing left passenger and left tweeter facing you i.e. the driver.




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#81 02-Dec, 2010 08:11 PM
Dhanapal
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      Yes, i am for DVD as i might go for Video option. he is saying 4190 b/w 10000 to 10500. I have checked with a guy in Grey market for 5190. waiting for his price and availability. will keep you posted.

       If not DVD he asked me to go for 5250 also has 3 RCA outs, launched this year. priced 6850 bucks.

       



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#82 02-Dec, 2010 08:25 PM
Karan Bhatia
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5250 is also a good head unit. I have used it in a relative's Aveo. Compared to 5190 it lacks a larger screen and 5190 also sounds a bit better with slightly better tuning options though in any head unit it is best to keep the EQ at Flat.

If you need video then look at JVC as well. JVC KD-AV7100 is a good option. There are other touch-screen based options from JVC as well.




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#83 02-Dec, 2010 08:37 PM
Dhanapal
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Choose the position of the tweeters according to what suits your ears. I have placed the Infinity tweeters flat on the dash. You can try pointing them towards the opposite listener i.e. right tweeter facing left passenger and left tweeter facing you i.e. the driver.

                Intresting..Good to know...but in this case will you seal your Tweeter in the Pillars...is it advisable to stick in in the Pillar..wont it tear off???



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#84 02-Dec, 2010 08:45 PM
Karan Bhatia
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To install the tweeter in the A-Pillar you will need to cut a hole in the A-Pillar Plastic pad and use the accessories supplied with the speakers to get a nice factory finish.

Infinity tweeter are small in size and look ok sitting on the dash. With a little bit tuning you can easily reduce the sharpness etc. so don't worry about it too much.




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#85 02-Dec, 2010 09:45 PM
Dhanapal
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Do you have any suggestions where to place the Sub and amp. I actually thought of having it in the boot next to each other to minimise the distance.



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#86 02-Dec, 2010 10:18 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Amp under the seat reduces the length of wiring required but makes the tuning and installation difficult. In case you decide to shift it to the back later on the wiring will be wasted.

Mount the amp on a MDF board in the back behind the rear seats. Will increase the length of the wires but in the end will look good and make the tuning and installation way easier.




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#87 03-Dec, 2010 07:16 AM
Master
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@Karan: I have changed my Vento stock speakers to Ground Zero 6" Coax. Just wondering , how do you rate them against Hellix/Alpine. If you have any personal experience. Do let me know.




Good things in life are never too expensive.....So called Best things May be.....
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#88 03-Dec, 2010 10:31 AM
George
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@karan, from the above discussions I chose the below configuration for my Accent GLE. Pls advice whether this would be a descent setup. Before heading to EVO I thought I will have an idea about what I'm looking for. If any modifications required let me know and also about the wiring kits for this config.

FRONT:Infinity Reference 6030c comp
REAR:infinity rear speakers
AMP:JBL 4-Ch Amplifier GT5-644
SUB: Rockford Fosgate R1S412



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#89 03-Dec, 2010 01:22 PM
Dhanapal
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Can we try to place the amp on the rear side of the back seat, not under it. This will reduce the distance also will be easy to install and tuning. Just my thought.



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#90 03-Dec, 2010 02:00 PM
Dhanapal
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Hi Karan,

              If i dont get Rockford Fosgate R1S412, can i go with JBL CS 1204 or Infinity Ref1220 SE sub woofer. Im confused. Undecided



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#91 03-Dec, 2010 02:37 PM
Karan Bhatia
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@Master ... I have only heard the subwoofers from Ground Zero when I visited Bombay sometime back. They hit really really hard but I have not heard any line of speakers from GZ yet. But judging from reviews online I would say their Subs perform better than the speakers compared to the competition. You should have gone for components up front to get a fuller sound.

@Joes ... Dude that is almost the same configuration as I have in my father's car. I have the Infinity components and R1S412 on a Kenwood 8401. Your setup is excellent. As for the wiring kit, if your budget allows then go for the scosche or a reputed wiring kit. Nothing more than 8 gauge is required. The JBL amplifier is not a very power hungry amp so even modest quality kits will be sufficient but use good quality RCA cables. The RCA cable that comes with scosche is excellent. If you choose non branded kits then be sure to get a pair of branded RCA kits for sure. You will get everything at EVO. Give my regards to Mr. Satya. he will surely suggest you even better brands which I have not yet had the chance to hear but the setup you have planned is a good reference.

@Dhanaz ... I was referring to the same installation method. Amplifier behind the rear seats fixed to a MDF board. That is the best way for the installation. As for the woofer, i would rate Rockford .. Infinity .. JBL in order of preference depending on the models.




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Last Updated: 03-Dec, 2010 02:40 PM, by karan3399
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#92 03-Dec, 2010 03:23 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Guys do try and get damping installed as well if your budget permits. You can get it done later also. Even a single layer of damping sheet on the door panel makes a huge difference to the sound. I have posted a link on the previous page showing my own car's damping in process.

It is one of the the most value for money equipment in any install and even average quality damping material helps. It eliminates the rattles and squeaks and gives a whole new output from the speakers.

Consider a subwoofer giving bass from an enclosure. Damping allows you to seal the gaps and holes in the doors thus making an enclosure or closed space for the speaker. The sound is better and detailes and you actully feel the bass and punch from the speakers in the cabin.




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#93 03-Dec, 2010 04:21 PM
Rohan
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Hi,

Would be getting new Honda City by this month end, please recommend brand car audio system i should go in for.

My requirements:

Great sound Quality

subwoofer, speaker - with or without amlify, would be listening to more of bass music.

Can spend around 20-30k

Thanks

Rohan

Mumbai.



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#94 03-Dec, 2010 04:52 PM
George
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@Rohan - Check my previous message, this would be a descent config I believe vouched by Karan Anyways I'm gonna do this tomorrow and give you more in detail.

@Karan:- I just talked to Satya and fixed the appointment, Will definitely be on your reference for sure. Will try to do the damping at least for front depending on the bill. I've been in search for advice for months and just on time you helped sincerely, thanks dude



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#95 03-Dec, 2010 05:11 PM
Karan Bhatia
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@Joes .. That is great dude. No need to say thanks at all brother. I was and still am learning about car audio and Mr. Satya has been one of the few experts who have helped me lot. I have a strong feeling that he will change the Infinity components to something less sharp. They are a bit sharp but again depends according to your taste, budget and installation. I am using them and found them quite good for the price but Satya will surely have more and even better brands with him that I have not yet heard so pointed you towards him.

If possible please post a few pics of the installation.




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#96 03-Dec, 2010 05:32 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Hi Rohan

Congrats on the new car by the way. Even my father has booked a new Honda City AT for himself but damn the waiting period !!!

I see you are from Bombay. Now like Joes who is from Bangalore you have access to more then enough good and expert installers there and loads of brands than what we have in Punjab. I would point you towards Mr. Ajay Kamath of A to Z Audio or BOOM Audio. I cannot confirm the address as of now but Mr. Ajay is one of the best installers you can come across.

As for the Honda City, the S,V variant come with a integrated system. It does not come with pre-out so your choices are as follows as per my understanding.

Replace the integrated system with after market head unit. You will need to get a dash kit to fit the after market head unit in to the space given for the integrated unit which is in the shape of a 'V'. The same dash kit is used in the lower E variant which does not come with the integrated stereo.

Your other option is to use an amplifier which accepts speaker level inputs (connections from the wires behind the head unit directly) rather than through RCA pre-out. You will be able to retain the factory stereo but the thing is that integrated stereos rarely sond good. They are good enough for the factory fitted speakers but once you amplify the signals and power good speakers, it will not sound good and also you will not have proper control over the speakers and sub woofer ad different tuning options.

You need to decide the head unit part first before you can proceed with the rest of the install.

As for the equipment well 20k or even 30k is less if you want to change the head unit.

Amplifier : Focal Solid 4 ~ 14k approx ~ one of the best amps that I have used till date with speaker level inputs. If on a budget then JBL GT5 or Kenwood (not sure of the model) ~ 7k

Front components ~ Illusion Electra 6.1  ~ 6k approx. Very good set of components for the price. Easily available in Bombay I suppose. For a higher budget look at Focal Polyglass or Alpine Type-R for about 10k to 12k.

Sub : Ground Zero ~ 5k to 10k depending on model. Or Rockford Fosgate or JBL GTO series.

I am slightly confused as to what to recommend since Bombay has tons of different brands which I know can perform really good but I have personally not heard most of them. Hence pointing you towards the right person. The problem with the head unit part is what I can confirm will turn up so pointed it out first.

Without a head unit you can easily have an amplified system in the City for 30k hence gave you the options which will suit your taste of music with more stress on the amplifier and subwoofer.




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#97 03-Dec, 2010 06:43 PM
Dhanapal
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@ Karan : I have asked for Rockford Fosgate R1S142 sub woofer with the dealer. He said he will chk and come back with the price and availability. Could you please throw some light on the Sub Enclosure.

   He said normal enclosure will cost 1200, is there any patter or any requirement for this Sub?



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#98 03-Dec, 2010 07:09 PM
Karan Bhatia
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It's a fairly new sub. Should be easily available in chennai and bangalore. Try other places as well for it. Should cost you nothing more than 3800. I got it for 3750 less than a month back.

According to the Rockford website and the manual that comes with the sub, you will get the best result from a sealed enclosure. A sealed enclosure does not have the cylindrical port that you see quite often see in woofer enclosure. The dimensions required for the sub enclosure is given in the manual and get it made according to that.

Ready made enclosures are never made to the specifications of your sub. Even if by coincidence they are, you still cannot be sure. Get the box made according to the manual and instruct the carpenter to keep the volume exactly what is given in the manual.

In this case the recommended size is 14 inches x 18 inches x 10 inches ( Height x Width x Depth ) using 3/4" MDF wood and all measurements are the external measurements. 

I know it sounds confusing but trust me, a good woofer can sound better or worse just by the enclosure it is used in.




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#99 03-Dec, 2010 07:22 PM
Dhanapal
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@karan: yes saw the same specification in their web site. Hope u have made your enclosure with the same dimension and there is no problem with the Effect.

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#100 03-Dec, 2010 07:30 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Yes my box is of the same specifications given in the manual. It cost me Rs 1700 but I got it made from a specialist who supplies subwoofer boxes to a lot of places in india. It's by a company called Venom.

The woofer is really good. Don't give it more than 200W of power. I am giving it 180W of power and have to keep the Gain from the amplifier to the minimum. It's a really nice woofer if you prefer the 'kick' of the bass. the bass is nice and clean. Keep the LPF at 80Hz

Hatchbacks by default enhance the bass of the woofer due to their design so buying a very powerful woofer say like 5OOW or even 350W will be overkill in my opinion. You can use powerful woofers in sedans.




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#101 04-Dec, 2010 02:15 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Hey Joes .. any updates on you system ??? Waiting to hear what configuration you got ..




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#102 04-Dec, 2010 09:47 PM
George
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Karan,

My configuration goes like this
Auditor RIP 4 channel Amplifier - 7500 (JBL Amp which I asked for was out of stock and he vouched this to be one step ahead)
Rockford Fosgate Components - 6000 (He gave options like Cerwin Vega, Auditor components apart from this of a bit costlier range)
Rockford Fosgate Sub - 4000 (Options were Cerwin Vega which was a bit costly)
Wiring kit, MDF for Sub - 2500 (Used Ghost, some imported cables a mix of them, quality looks descent)

I never heard Cerwin Vega and Auditor components so I chose Rockford. He spent some 15-20 min to understand my requirements and came up with 4 options which was a mix of the above stuff. As my budget was 20k I kept an option to upgrade my existing stock rear later and wiring is done.

Quality of sound is awesome and if something is missing the upgradation of rear will fulfill it. I could not listen to many of my collections as I just came back from his shop at 8 after a marathon waiting from 1130am. Everyone was so busy as guys kept flowing in today being a saturday. Though I asked to get the damping done installation guys gave comments  like Accent is fine unlike Swift as not much space available in the speaker space. Satya asked if i could hear any jarring and if not he don't feel a requirement of damping badly. But i knew this wil not be done as everyone being so busy and I chose a wrong day. Guys were parking in queue waiting for their turn. But the work the guys do is far better than the other local shops and Satya knows what stuff will fit each customer.

I felt a bit costly when he said JBL amp costs 6.5 for which I got a 5.5 quote from previous posts of this blog.



Last Updated: 04-Dec, 2010 09:56 PM, by Joes77
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#103 04-Dec, 2010 10:40 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Awesome setup Joes. Auditor is the younger and slightly mass market brand from Focal which makes one of the best speakers and amplifiers in the world. My first set of components were from Auditor which I still have.

I suggested you Auditor amp earlier also keeping in mind the slightly mature sound compared to JBL or Kenwood. It's a wonderful amp for it's price and will serve a good range of speakers.

Rockford components and subwoofer make a really good combination. Please let me know the model of the components that you have got. Cerwin Vega is another well known brand but not so much in India.

I 'warned' you before only to go there as early as possible ... LOL .. specially on a weekend too ..LOLOLOLOL ..but jokes apart it's really nice that you got your ICE done.

I have never met Mr. Satya in person nor been to Bangalore. I have only interacted with him on phone or by SMS and he has always guided me to the best results with my ICE and helped me select the best equipment for my setup.

As for the price of the JBL amp, the price offered to Dhanaz was the dealer/distributor price if I am not wrong which is always less than the price it is sold to customers. Prices of certain brands are a tad bit higher in Bangalore for sure and I say this with personal experience but you guys also get to choose from a lot of different brands.

As for the upgrade, well let the speakers and subwoofer 'break in' before they actually sound the way they are supposed to. Like a new car's engine needs some run in period before which it can give the best performance and efficiency, speaker and specially subwoofers need some time before their voice coils open up and move freely to give the best sound. This time can be few hours to few days depending on size and brand and model of the equipment. So in short your equipment is going to sound even better than it already does.

You can get a Boston or better yet a Rockford 2 channel amplifier (R150-2) later on for the Rockford sub. You can also go for a mono but the 2ch will give same power with that sub and will be cheaper. The Auditor amp can be then used to run a pair of co-axial speakers. 

Don't spend too much on powerful co-axial speakers in the rear and try to get one from the same model series as the front components. They are always louder and sensitive than component speakers meaning with same amount of power, a co-axial speaker will sound louder than a component speaker.

Enough of this talk ... enjoy your system sir. Congrats once again and a last piece of advice .. try to use as good as audio files as possible. They make a huge difference but managing audio cd's is a pain so try and download only the best possible quality of songs available. Keep the EQ on FLAT and Loudness as well as Sound Retriever off though I assume Satya has done this only. Enjoy the music and happy upgrading.

Cheers.




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Last Updated: 04-Dec, 2010 10:45 PM, by karan3399
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#104 06-Dec, 2010 12:25 PM
George
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@Karan, the specific details goes like this

Auditor RIP 4 channel Amplifier - RIP 4280 (http://www.auditor-audio.com/amplifiers/amplifier-4power-channels/rip-4280.php)
Rockford Fosgate Components - 6.5" - R1652-S
Rockford Fosgate Sub - 12" - R1S412


I listened for a while and quality is awesome. I wonder that the components could give so quality and clear powerful music even there are no rear speakers set up. Few AR Rahman songs gave a very little bit of jarring (for a few milliseconds I'd say) and I feel a damping can fix the issue. I will be talking to him soon to check whether this can be fixed though this is not a big issue as I found very less# 2-3 songs out of 50-60 songs I listened. Thanks buddy will update this whenever there is an update. Cheers



Last Updated: 06-Dec, 2010 12:28 PM, by Joes77
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#105 06-Dec, 2010 03:37 PM
Dhanapal
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@joes : Congrats on your new ICE set up. Happy Listening..

@karan : I am taking my car on 9th Dec, as its raining heavily in Chennai. I have a query on where to install the sub might suond a bit sillyTongue out

           Sould the Sub be placed on the centre of the boot, or on the left/right side..this question suddenly popped out as i was thinking about boot space. Actually i dont mind about my boot space, just wanna ask you which is the best part to keep the Sub.



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#106 06-Dec, 2010 03:49 PM
George
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Mine is not fitted in the boot but just kept it like that and the position can be changed. I will wait for karan's reply as to see whether I should fix it. And the thing worrying me is that there is no protecting grill fitted for the Sub to protect the speaker and I should find someone who do it.



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#107 06-Dec, 2010 03:55 PM
Dhanapal
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@ joes: Oh yes..that should be done for sure according to me. You said paid 4000 bucks for your sub Rockford Fosgate - 12" - R1S412. Is this including the Box or just for the Sub alone?



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#108 06-Dec, 2010 04:44 PM
George
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It was only for the speaker, MDF+wiring etc he charged me ~2500



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#109 06-Dec, 2010 05:44 PM
Karan Bhatia
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Hi guys.

Sorry for the delay in replying. Was out of town since morning.

Joes even I am having a front component+sub setup in both of my cars. Co-axial speakers are more than enough for the rear passengers even if you run them off the head unit and not through a dedicated amplifier.

As for the jarring, well some tracks do have that effect because use of low bass (read low frequencies and not less quantity of bass). You can try tracks such as Tu Bin Bataye (Rang De Basanti) if you're into hindi music or Akon's I wanna Love You (trust me this track will blow you away and for the time you hear this you will wish you had a monster 15" sub in the boot) or Bass I Love you. These are some of the tracks that really push a system and are great to know the limitations/improvements in your setup.

Damping will not only remove the jarring, it will also improve the overall effect in any setup.

Dhanaz congrats on the car dude. I know it's difficult waiting. First of all brother no query is small or silly and well a grill is necessary if you keep lot of stuff in the boot such as suitcases, shopping bags etc. I am not using a grill as I rarely use the boot for keeping such stuff. I shall post pics of the box I have used for the Rockford Sub, meanwhile here is a video of my other car with a Infinity Sub http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtIYayD-eMg 

The placement of the sub does not matter guys. Keep it facing the boot door or outside of the car and not facing towards the rear seats. Left, Right  or Centre does not make a difference.

A woofer is meant to play the really low frequencies i.e. 80Hz and below. Low frequencies have high wavelength which in layman language means that a woofer's sound or bass or the kick will easily travel to longer distances and through solids and reach even the front passengers while the sound of the speakers in the front sound less loud when you are near the boot. That is why you always a loud show off type car's woofers playing from a distance than it's speakers.

Keep it any where you want but try to have it pointing towards the boot door for the maximum kick.

In a hatchback like a swift, i10, getz, the same woofer on the same amplifier playing the same track of same quality and same volume will sound 1.5 times louder and punchier than a sedan as the hatchback body acts as an enclosure itself.

Joes must be thinking of getting the boot of the accent chopped off .. Tongue out




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#110 06-Dec, 2010 07:18 PM
Dhanapal
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Yeah probably joes can try cutting his rear and sell the model to Hyundai ahain.lol..Tongue out

@karan : could you please give an idea about the wiring, how it should be done. or how can i ask the technician to do the wiring?



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