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Driving in Neutral good or bad?

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#21 09-Nov, 2009 07:33 PM
Krishna
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Posted by H Selva Kumar

I read this some where : Fuel consumption is less when the car coasts in top most gear (gear with overdrive) when compared to engine idling (car coasting in Neutral).

Selva, could you please give some references or somehow substantiate? Most FE related websites prefer neutral coasting to DFCO, as DFCO loses momentum faster than the equivalent of idling fuel consumption. This can be checked in standard FE saving tips at gassavers.org, cleanmpg, ecomodder... a lot many other FE related sites.

Posted by H Selva Kumar

While on a long drive : Better be safe doing this (Coasting in Top most gear) rather than getting distracted to mantain high FE (periodical monitoring of speedo and shifting gears/switching on engine).

Driving as a whole is an acquired skill, but with practice, it becomes second nature - So does the neutral coasting habit, or even engine-off coasting - I can vouch for it, from first hand experience. I would invite you to come along when we go from Vashi to Kihim beach at the meet, and certify my assertion on this.

Posted by H Selva Kumar

@Gouri

Driving your bike in top gear is safer than coasting in Neutral. Lord Krishna would second me on this, but I doubt about what Manus Krishna would post!Wink

Manus Krishna already gave his verdict in the earlier post - and I am as sure as you about Lord Krishna's opinion Wink



Last Updated: 09-Nov, 2009 07:36 PM, by Krishna
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#22 10-Nov, 2009 01:29 PM
Nilesh Sawant
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Joined Date: 27 Oct 2009
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Read this useful info on net, Thought I'd share with you. -

What is DFCO?

It is an abbreviation for "Deceleration Fuel Cutoff", and the Yaris' engine (1NZ-FE) has it.


How does it work?

When your Yaris is moving forward with zero throttle and is in gear (engine braking) the ECU (your car's computer) cuts off the fuel flow to the injectors. This means you are experiencing forward movement with no fuel cost.


Does this work on both the Liftback and the Sedan?

It is not dependent on body style.


Does this work on both the manual and automatic transmissions (MT and AT)?

Yes, but it is much more efficient with the MT. The MT can achieve DFCO in any gear as long as the clutch is engaged (meaning you don't have it pushed in) and your foot is not touching the throttle. Early versions pf the AT (Including ones sold in the U.S. until around January 2007) can only achieve DFCO with a gear selection lower than (D)rive, i.e. 3 or L, but since half way through the 2007 model year the AT can achieve DFCO in all gears..


Is the Yaris the only car that does this?

Not by any means. Many cars manufactured since 1999, even a few as early as 1995, have this feature.


How can I tell if a vehicle other than the Yaris has DFCO?

Be careful with this test as you may lose Power Steering and Power Brakes during it! Choose the right time and location to perform the test.

On any level or slightly downhill road get up to at least 40 MPH, then start engine braking by keeping the vehicle in gear and letting all the way off the throttle while keeping the clutch disengaged (MT) or keeping the transmission in a gear lower than D (AT). Notice the deceleration force and the sound of the engine.

Now tun off your ignition (This is where you may lose your PS/PB, so be wary!) and watch for any harsher deceleration or change in the pitch of the engine for a few seconds.

If nothing was any different with the ignition turned off then your vehicle uses DFCO. If it decelerated at a different rate or pitch with the ignition off then it does not use DFCO. Do not forget to start your engine back up!


How long does it take the Yaris' 1NZ-FE engine to enter and leave the DFCO mode?

The transition takes between 500 and 750 milliseconds (ms) depending on several other ECU measurements.


What will make the engine leave DFCO mode?

1) Touching the accelerator.
2) Dropping below 1,100 RPM.
3) Putting the transmission in neutral/disengaging the clutch.


Does changing gears make the engine leave and then quickly re-enter DFCO mode?

If you take <= 1 second to change gears (as most experienced drivers do) then no, you will remain in DFCO the entire time. However, if your shift takes longer than 1 second there is a chance you will leave DFCO for a few seconds.




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#23 10-Nov, 2009 01:31 PM
Nilesh Sawant
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How can I use DFCO to increase my MPG?

Let me count the ways...

- When traveling down a grade get into DFCO mode instead of racing from corner to corner or riding your friction brakes, etc.

- As soon as you hit an exit ramp off of the highway go into DFCO all the way to the end of the ramp.

- When approaching a stop or turn use DFCO to decelerate down to just a few MPH before applying the friction brakes.

- When you're stuck in heavy traffic use the well-known technique of finding the right speed to keep a few car lengths of distance ahead of you and maintain forward momentum, then use DFCO to decelerate when needed instead of your friction brakes.

- Use DFCO to maintain controlled forward movement while you're trying to stay moving while approaching a traffic light that you're waiting to turn green.


How can I maximize my speed control when using DFCO?


By selecting the right gear for the purpose. Select a higher gear for faster DFCO movement and a lower gear for slower movement (this is where the MT really outshines the AT). Both transmission types can have their DFCO movement speed adjusted by tapping the fuel when a higher speed is required than gravity can achieve, and by light friction brake usage when some speed needs to be bled off but the next lower gear would be too much.


Does using DFCO hurt my vehicle?

No more than maintaining an idle, or maintaining a fuel-based engine load on it would be, as normally happens in these instances.


Is DFCO more efficient than using the clutch and/or friction brakes to stop?

When you push the clutch in or the AT enters its lowest power state your engine idles (the AT idles a bit higher than the MT in order to produce the pressures needed to operate the torque converter). Idling requires fuel while DFCO does not so DFCO is more efficient. However, you will not be able to use DFCO to completely stop all forward movement as you will eventually drop below 1,100 RPM, so the idea is to use DFCO as much as possible before engaging the friction brake system in the normal manner.


Is using DFCO like this legal?

Absolutely. Even those rare Interstate passes or other roads where engine braking is prohibited don't apply here because those areas have banned engine braking due to emissions controls (notice how semi trucks spew acrid black smoke when they are engine braking), but we are producing zero tailpipe emissions because we are not burning any fuel at all.



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#24 10-Nov, 2009 01:40 PM
Pankaj Prasad
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Thanks Nilesh for sharing the info.  Plaase also post the reference/url of the webpage you have derived the same from.




Honesty is not a Spare Wheel that you pull out when in trouble. It's a Steering Wheel that keeps you on the right path throughout the life's journey.
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#25 10-Nov, 2009 02:52 PM
Gouri Shankar Yadav
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Posted by Nilesh Sawant

How can I use DFCO to increase my MPG?

Let me count the ways...

- When traveling down a grade get into DFCO mode instead of racing from corner to corner or riding your friction brakes, etc.

- As soon as you hit an exit ramp off of the highway go into DFCO all the way to the end of the ramp.

- When approaching a stop or turn use DFCO to decelerate down to just a few MPH before applying the friction brakes.

- When you're stuck in heavy traffic use the well-known technique of finding the right speed to keep a few car lengths of distance ahead of you and maintain forward momentum, then use DFCO to decelerate when needed instead of your friction brakes.

- Use DFCO to maintain controlled forward movement while you're trying to stay moving while approaching a traffic light that you're waiting to turn green.


I use each & every way mentioned here. And it has helped me to increase my bike's average from 40 to 50.




One who keeps the ability to see the beauty never grows old
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#26 10-Nov, 2009 03:27 PM
Nilesh Sawant
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Here's the link of the site I got this info from -

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4248



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#27 18-Nov, 2009 06:54 PM
Krishna
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Please have a look at this thread - these guys are nerds, and nothing beats them as far as fuel efficiency knowhow is concerned, particularly my Guru - PaleMelanesian. If you happen to visit the thread, go see his fuel logs. He routinely gets 70mph (30 kmpl), so hold your guns as far as objections are concerned.

Thread summary: He is of the opinion that if you plan to slow or come to a halt, use DFCO, but for other cases, the braking effect induced by the load of engine on the wheels is much more than the fuel savings by avoiding idling fuel consumption, so overall it is bad.

Expert opinion furnished, case dismissed! Laughing



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#28 18-Nov, 2009 07:32 PM
Rohit B.D.
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Aha!! I see clearly now why coasting in neutral saves fuel - however the advantage is when you are at a good enough speed so that the distance covered in idling is such that it uses up less fuel than when in gear with DFCO (hope I got that right).




S = k.I^2, where S is the amount of stupidity a species possesses, I is the intelligence the species has and k is the universal constant of stupidity.
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