For all the noise, how is Fiat really doing?

See it this way, Fiat doesnt enjoy any brand reputation in India, yet they come up with a product thats is placed in top of B and C segments and not at entry level where there is bigger market. It becomes more challenging for brand that doesnt enjoy good name to serve premium section of a given segment. They tried to cover the segment by bringing in 5 variants in segment but that was not something that worked in favour of them as consumer could not position where the product stand. Example if I buy a Linea Emotion pack (disel) for 10L, at the same time I can see someone else driving same brand for 6.5L in petrol, now thats blows of all my 10L segment image and prestige.

Why noise, because the neighbour of Linea buyer would be least bothered to hear as for him FIAT is not something he looks upon. Hence buyers come to internet pour there words from heart and other active auto freaks enjoy the discussions. - No disrespect for any FIAT product owners, take it on lighter side. P.S. I am a Fiat Linea Emotion Pack owner :p

@Sukumar - Congratulations. And don't worry boss, You can check the following link, about my experience of owning 1.2 Active Punto.

http://www.carwale.com/forums/ViewThread-11135.html

Back to the discussions, really nice write-up by Steroid , Amit.

Different people, different experience. For me, if I like a car, I wouldn't be so bothered by the attitudes of the sales people. Having said that I always had pleasant experience with Tata (Concorde). Even for test drives of my friends, they responded well. On the contrary, I too have experiences in Maruti where car went out in spite of calling them half an hour before reaching the showroom. Ford wouldn't send me the Fiesta. GM wouldn't accept a longer test drive of the Optra, etc. etc. But that was never the deal breaker for me.

While I can quietly ignore the negative, but incorrect, comments about Fiat, specially from non-Fiat owners, I make an effort to correct that perception. Different people may have different reason. And I have my agenda there too. I believe that Linea is an all round good car and I want it to sell in good numbers so that I won't end up with a car whose spares will not be available after 5 years!! Yes. I had this horrible experience of owning a non-selling vehicle called Bajaj Saffire. You can very well see how well Bajaj sell their vehicles. Still, they wouldn't just be willing to service routinely or provide spares. Why Saffire failed or why Palio failed, the reasons could be different though.

About the spares and after sales service and attitudes of Tata service, let me tell you that I owned an Indica too earlier and used to service from the same place where I service Linea. The attitudes towards Linea owners are far better than any other car owner. Don't ask me why they should be making a disctinction in the first place. But the point is that they have dedicated people for Fiat cars and they are trying hard and doing decently good. Parts availabilty is not an issue (I had changed quite a few things including bonnet, bumper, grill, rear view mirror cover, etc.) Yes, I too had problems like engine oil wouldn't be available in the service station I visit and asked me to visit another service station. But then that was just when they started selling Linea (I was one of the earliest owner of Linea).

Well said, Opendro.

Everyone who blames the showroom and salesman's attitude for the lack of Fiat sales should remember that the same showrooms and salesmen sell about 12 times as many cars of another brand.  And then some MUVs and SUVs on top of it.  A salesperson's commission is based on the value of his sale - given that the Fiat cars cost more than their Tata equivalents, the salesman should be more interested in selling a car of a higher value.

Or is it that he is more interested in a definite sale of a lower value than a doubtful upgrade sale of a higher value?  From personal interaction with some of the sales staff in a couple of Tata dealerships I do get the feedback that they think people only come to look at Fiat vehicles, converting it into a sale is very difficult as they have to give customers answers for the failure of previous models that they had nothing to do with.  "Sir you ask me anything about Indica, from the first version onwards - I will give you answers why some parts failed, how issues were rectified even though I only joined a year back.  How can I give answers for Fiat problems that happened 3 years back when nobody else here has answers to these?"

I must thank this forum for a mature, level-headed and logical discussion on this topic - that too without any moderator intervention.  We must have more of these discussions.

Dont take yourself too seriously. Nobody else does.

Let sales figure talk. Both GP & Linea are selling in good numbers.Fiat is rebuilding its image in India & it seems that they are on right track. Lets wait for 2-3 years & see how Fiat evolve .

Steeroid, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. I have sold VW's in Canada and it can get extemely difficult to convince 'safe' buyers to go in for a 'risky' product. Answering questions on reliablity, spares, service back up, maintainence costs, fuel efficiency can really bog you down. I am sure even first time Fiat buyer's must be asking sales staff about these questions before deciding on the Linea and Grande Punto. Since the sales persons earns money only if he sells, he will push the buyer to a Vista or Indigo if he senses that the prospect is a bit uncomfortable with a Fiat. All that is the Uno, Siena and Palio legacy which the Linea and Grande Punto cannot change in 10 months no matter how good they are. Better to sell the partner's car then to see him walk away to a Hyundai or Maruti showroom.Now of course, it's far easier to sell Tata cars for the sales guys as all they have to say is 'Sir, go for the Vista, same engine as the Grande Punto but no issues with spares etc"

I will quote from a personal expereince I had when I was looking to buy the Punto. This was at the Fortune, Powai showroom. A red Emotion PK Grande Punto and Vista Quadrajet are in the same showroom. An average Indian car buyer is there. He asks the salesman, why is the Punto more expensive then Vista? Sales man says, Punto has ABS, Airbags, blue&me. That's it. He stops. What are these things and what do they do? Nothing about that! I butt in and tell the guy the Punto also comes with ACC, 15" alloys to give better stability, extensive MY CAR features that help you track mileage, 15,000 kms service intervals, nifty features like coming home lights etc.

Any product that you sell, you have to build value in it. Just saying x car has ABS and Airbags compared to car y will not convince the buyer about the higher cost of car x because most buyers don't know what ABS is. For most it's just some fancy term. Even if a product is 1 rupee more then another product, the buyer will find it expensive if you don't tell him why it's 1 rupee more expensive. You have to tell the buyer what ABS does and why it's better then non-ABS cars.

There are some people that ask what if Tata walks away from this JV tomorrow? Clearly, the fear is that the JV may not last beyond a couple of years and when that happens Fiat will be left hanging nowhere. Such questions only come when people are not aware of the JV terms. If Tata walks away tomorrow, their own production will come to a grinding halt. Tata's best selling cars now come with Fiat engine's and gearboxes. Besides, Tata have put in Rs.2,000 crores in this partnership. How easy is it to walk away from Rs.2,000 crores? That's big money even for a major industrial house like the Tata's.

Eventually, I feel Tata-Fiat should look at making showrooms the way VW-Audi showrooms are in North America. Many of these showrooms are in the same building but have separate enterences giving customers the feel of entering and being in separate showrooms. Of course, internally these places are the same with staff moving from VW to Audi side easily but customer's don't know that.

Lack of Fiat exclusive showrooms and service centers is a big block against better Fiat sales. It does make you feel safe to know that the car you own has it's own exlusive showroom and service center. Tata-Fiat need to understand that cars are the second most expensive investment people make after a house (most expensive if you consider the fact that car's depreciate while houses don't) and they should give the people what they want.

Amit from TBHP?  There cant be too many Amits that own a Palio AND has sold VWs in Canada AND is now in Mumbai.

Dont take yourself too seriously. Nobody else does.

Yes sir. And also Amit that now owns a Grande Punto. Maybe, I just like taking risks!

wel said Amit,Steeroid...

I am sure Fiat will certainly reposition them sleves with seperate showrooms & service network once they are established. As i think to gain confidance of the customer they had to showcase themselves with TATA together & may be that has worked now. many people who were scared to even get in to Fiat showroom have started visiting with a secuerd feeling of JV with TATA now. They invested money in to the Plant rather then in dealer netwrok where there were no taker. I am sure now with new launches & success even dealer will be happy to hv Fiat setup in few months from now . Everybody is watching at the moment....

The sales executive of Concorde Motors, with whom I interacted when I bought my Fiat Linea, told me that he was in charge of Fiat products only.  He would get his incentive/bonus if he sells Fiat products only.  Similarly, there are dedicated sales executives for different brands and models, thereby, there is no conflict of interest.  However, I mentioned in my feed-back about the need for exclusive show-room for Fiat products, which will go a long way in more customer satisfaction and better brand image of Fiat.

Fiat Linea 1.4 FIRE Emotion Pack FTA [From 8 Oct 2009]