Water4gas India

Simple. The energy inputs and outputs for the claimed technology do not match, thus violating law of conservation of energy. These type of gizmos are called perpetual motion machines, for they give output in excess of input. Curiously, there is a reference to a water fuel cell on the perpetual motion machine page on Wikipedia. 

Show input energy and output energy calculations. Simply don't repeat unsubstantiated statements. The link cited does not work. No website of the said name could be found.

Don't patronize me. You have no idea who I am.

I am tired of responding now, but still will not let pseudoscience take over. So fully expect me to respond, and post carefully therefore.

 Dear Krishna,

My experiance of milage Buster of Praveen Varma is 20% gain In average on WagonR & On my Tata Hitachi EX200 Excavator. WagonR average is 11 kms on lpg with milage Buster it has gone upto 13.5-14 kms. Plus I do not need to change the gear from 5th even at 15 kms. speed. My car runs very smothly at 15 kms. in 5th gear.

Further my excavator disel consumption per hour is 20 lits. by milage Buster it redused to 16 lits. Experiance youself to get all replies with possitive attitude & appritiate new technics. Appritiate time & money spen for it.

Rajan

Post edited to separate the 'quote' from the comments posted thereon / therein below.

Dear Rajan and Girish,

Thanks for devoting time to share the results of your gain. I dont think that we can continue here because of idotic behaviour of Mr. Krishna. I had already decided to leave this forum and will not write here after this post. However unsubscribing for the alerts.

Sh. Girish, it is nice that your post has reminded me to give you a bigger system to test the gas cutting tourch. In fact the delay is because I am looking out some details on AC electrolysis. No issue man I will provide you the system soon capable to operate your gas cutting torch.

Mr. Krishna, I suggest to sell out your Honda city car and buy a bullok cart. That will give you best mileage with simplified energy calculations (which you can understand).

Good bye everbody... have a nice time.

Regards

Praveen

PS- Mr. Moderator - If there is any route by which i can delete my user ID then please let me know.

Praveen, is that all you got? Calling names and quitting instead of backing up your claims with solid scientific data? Dude, a lot of people are fleeced off by scientific sounding marketing jargon - and if people on this forum do not stop that then the whole purpose of this website is lost.

I appreciate Krishna's stand on this and support him. Krishna, don't mind this guy...it has happened to me (somewhere else a long time back) - some just want to sell snake oil and you know what, there will be those who buy it and swear by it!!

It will be done at our end.  Be rest assured.

Show input energy and output energy calculations. Simply don't repeat unsubstantiated statements. The link cited does not work. No website of the said name could be found.

yes thie link was wronge the correct link is

www.h2oweld.com     www.oweld.com    the indian dealer name is Anandkumar  mobile no. 9886125173  or 080- 23147975 .  Five years back I have seen this machine in Mumbai Exibition and it works as   it states.  

and body whatever you are, we know very well what we are doing.

Girish, no issues with the oweld stuff, other than the fact that it is unrelated to discussion - The electrolysis of water results in O2 and H2 being generated. No dispute on that. The whole point is it is not efficient enough to run this process indefinitely, feeding the electrolysis energy needs, and powering external loads as a secondary output (perpetual motion reference). In that context, the example is rather pointless.

I got confused as to how to interpret the word 'body' I guess you mean buddy, and I took it to be 'boy', with an additional d. So I request you to ignore the earlier comment about patronizing talk.

However, still, NO NUMBERS!!

Things seem to have settled now, however, I wish to intervene and clarify a few things.

@Praveen,

You seem to have had several problems with forum policies, moderators and members. My two cents:

Reveiling email addresses/phone nos/website addresses: It's a public forum and here we are not supposed to discuss personal things. Moreover, we find it malicious act also becuase we feel it's done by those who either wish to attract people to another websites (spammers) or salesmen who wish to sell something. And to put matter to rest, it's our policy, and it will remain this way, whether you accept it or not.

You are sounding like as if all of us here are conspirators and are conspiring against your technology. It's not so. All of us are too subtle to conspire. But since your technology is yet to see light of the day, it's obvious that we have many questions. Moreover, there have been hundreds of cases where so-called experts of this technology have literally cheated innocent people hence we are a little over-cautious. So, please bear with us.

Moreover, one would notice that forum has opposed Girish and you but welcomed Anjeel Babbar. However, all three of you believe in this technology! Why? It's about approach. Because Girish entered the forum with ebooks in his hand available for sale and you entered like know-all person and thrown web links, email addresses and phone nos. Your website prominently talks about sale of such equipments and we have seen your posts in other forums on the web where you are openly selling your kits. We are afraid that if given a chance, you will open your shop here as well. And we don't want that. On the other hand Anjeel is favourite of ours. He is here for taking the technology to next level. To help and learn and not sell.

Praveen/Girish,

Use this forum as a platform to discuss your technology. Help others and get benefitted by gathering knowledge. If you prove your metal, you guys will be pioneer of this technology in the country and maybe in the world too. You won't need to bother about sales then, they will follow you. But if you start selling your kits/books at this stage, you will receive this kind of response only.

@Krishna,

I highly appreciate you for your knowledge and your intentions, however, I have found some of your posts to be provoking. Would request you to please tone down a little, unless it's required.

@Anjeel and others,

Apologies on behalf of forum. Please continue your constructive discussions. I promise, this sort of incident will not happen again.

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Warning: I do not invite any apology/justification on anything henceforth. Please post in this thread only if you think it will take it to the right direction.

Thanks banwari ji for your involvement, I had almost lost interest in this thread due to the unhealthy battle going on.  I personally request Krishna, Praveen, Girish and others to continue their posts as the only way to further any technology is by having a healthy debate and I am quite sure all of you will take this in the right spirit.  

Frankly, a number of submissions of Krishna made a lot of sense to me but at times I found him too arrogant.  What is the need, and what do you gain out of this?  As I am also from the science background and respect his fixity to believe in what he stated, however if we are to believe in established facts then technology will not further.  We must give “reasonable room” to accept a little bit of entropy here.  

On the other hand Praveen and Girish since you are already experimenting your device let us talk results vs designs vs problems vs time and not talk about selling stuff (unless you believe that you have achieved perfection already).  We all know that we are no where close to reality as yet.  

Yet, I am a strong believer that Hydroxy can be used as an alternate fuel, there is no doubt on this as I, as also many others, have done this in the past, but how to gain “real” efficiency is what we are trying to arrive at and more so when “Hyroxy is produced on demand”.  There is no such thing as perpetual motion machine and neither is Hydroxy,  The gain from Hydroxy gets lost in some form or other and towards the end the net result is 0.  The 5-20% gain that we are all talking about is the manual tweaking of sensors that we do and I am not sure if it is due to hydroxy.  The vehicles are designed to operate at efficiency level more than what is the real load is and we just offset it. This does not mean Hydroxy is doing the trick.

Towards the end, may I ask how many of us here are real time experimenters?

I have a small story from Mahabharata to repeat. MODs: This is NOT OT. So please let it be.

During the Mahabharata war, in one episode, Jayadratha killed Abhimanyu in the Chakravyuha by deceit. Abhimanyu's father Arjuna then vowed to kill Jayadratha before sunset that day, or burn himeslf to death on a pyre if the vow was not fulfilled. Knowing that there is no way avoiding certain death without hiding, Jayadratha went to hide, not to be seen till evening time.

Krishna played a trick there - He used his Sudarshana Chakra to obscure the sun, so everyone believed it was dusk already, and the sun had set. Arjuna, disappointed that he could not fulfil his vow, was circumambulating the lit pyre before entering it. Jayadratha, gleeful that his life was safe, and Arjuna, on the other hand was dying, came there in person to witness the spectacle.

When Krishna saw Jayadratha, he removed the Sudarshana Chakra to reveal the sun in all its evening glory, and alerted Arjuna - "Arjuna, see, here's the sun and here's Jayadratha!" Arjuna did not waste a moment - just grabbed his bow and arrows and dispatched Jayadratha to hell in a single shot of his arrow!

Moral of the story is - Sometimes one has to be a bit cruel to be kind, a bit harsh to be gentle, and a bit hawkish to get the truth out.

I am not arrogant, or provocative by blind habit, or boastful by nature. I was maybe all this on this thread for a small while to bring out the willingness/unwillingness of the proponents of HHO to really explain the principle behind the technology. We did not see any explanation, even under grave provocation. So now it is reasonable to assume that the explanation simply is not there at all.

@Banwariji, sorry, it was a long explanation/apology/justification, while you explicitly uninvited it! But I find it necessary to give you all a background of why this was done.

@Anjeel, the last but one para of your post summarizes why you did not see any improvements with HHO. I have gone through a lot of stuff on the net on this, but I find that the whole exercise is unremunerative from the thermodynamics POV.

Yes I am an armchair scientist. But I don't see this as a handicap. A thorough prior homework will let you choose to spend your resources on the most important points that are guaranteed to give you good results, with minimal investment. This is the reason why I could achieve my new year resolution of 23 kmpl out of my car while not doing any crazy mods at all. All the while I contemplated these mods, but then carefully weighed my options, and saw whether it was necessary for my goal attainment. I said NO to almost all crazy mods I came across, even those I could do with minimal efforts. (folding side mirrors - perfectly justified, could be done, but I found my driving was a bit unsure with mirrors folded, so promptly unfolded them). I do not hesitate when I am sure I can and should make changes (pumping up tyres to 50, and then 55 PSI - CW crowd was screaming mad when I told them. But I am cool with it)

@Rohit, I admire your steadfastness, and willingness to confront. Thanks buddy!

Explanations done and over with, Let us continue the topic - Can anyone please detail out the various energy budgets and transformations that play a role in HHO assist, and can the mileage boost that is claimed be numerically predicted/justified?