Water4gas India

Saw the last few annotations on this thread, my apologies for coming in late, we have a 12+ hours of time difference, between India and US and I could reply late due to work occupation too.    I agree with Krishna on his skepticism on this technology.  But my opinion is purely based on my experiments that have come forth after having done almost 10,000+ km of actual road test with results documented with each modification but…..first let us answer some of the qualms here.

1. First, we must deject people to commercialize their small time gains like selling e-books like the one from Ozzie.  I agree with Krishan completely that by reading just those e-books or like, it is not possible to gain any benefit.  These books are like one of those “become a prime minister in 30 days’, even though these can be an interesting reading but a waste of time to gain actual gain on road in a short period of time.  One effortless example is none of these books will teach you on how to tame the OBD Class I ECU unit of Indian cars and how to avoid the fail safe system.  This is the base line and if you do not have a concrete answer to this you are just wasting your time and in fact you will end up dumping fuel instead if you incorrectly set up the signals from the ECU.

2. I have not come across, (including myself), anyone yet who has been able to effectively stabilize the combustion of HHO, and in my case even after having done over 10K in India on my 2004 WagonR.  So I can state with fare amount of belief, backed by actual road tests and documented evidence, that this technology is not ready as yet, in fact as I mentioned in my previous notes here, it is a long long way to go.  However I must urge the readers with sincerity not to daunt people who are trying to invest time and energy on this at their own stake / risk.  Share the knowledge for free and share your experience for the benefit of others.  I have gained quite good experience from the dos and don’ts of others.

3. Regarding a note by joseph where in he used the home medical vaporizer to produce steam and tying to ignite it and giving his conclusion to all.  This is not the right way of producing HHO.  Remember what is producing HHO is not the medical vaporizer with copper plates, it is the chemical action taking place between Stainless steel Fuel Cell and electrolyte.  If you set it up right you will be able to produce HHO which will definitely ignite.  I can demonstrate this once I am back home.

4. As I also mentioned in my previous notes here on this thread, it is not impossible to gain about 30% gain in efficiency but at the same time you also need to accept the tedious maintenance of the unit, as an example water drain that is required every 1000 or odd km and when you drain the water it can be really filthy.  From end user point of view this is not quite a convenient way to maintain the car.  Also keep in mind that this drained water contains KoH.  I have spoilt many of my good clothing due to this mess.  Some others may be even allergic to this chemical.  How do you get this approved by any authorities and what explanation can you give regarding the handling??

5. None of these kits are being approved by vehicle manufacturers even in US.  But I disagree with Ramesh that none of the vehicle manufacturers have actually laid their hands on this.  GM, Crysler and Ford have active research going on this subject.  Boston University has a separate division where by they have gained sufficient mileage on their nano-fibre technology to store Hydrogen as an intermittent stage before being introduced to the ignition chamber.  But no-one seems to be ready with it yet as a commercial launch.

Almost forgot to mention that, remember guys the bottom line is eventually whenever and who ever makes it, this test has to be endorsed by one of the 5 available research labs in India.  The closest one to Delhi being IIP – Dehradun or ARAI / VRDE Amhednager/Gujrat.  Until the time the endorsement comes from these test labs this will be always a debatable subject.

I hope to be back in India by June this year or may be earlier, and as always anyone is most welcome to have a look at my working model and give your opinion on how good or hopeless this idea can be.  And you do not need to be a techy for that matter, all are welcome.

I was not trying to ignite steam! That was HHO bubbling out with the water turning to brown.

And you dont need stainless steel to make HHO. Of course I did not know then that the HHO flame was invisible (is it?). And this information stopped me from playing with HHO further. An odourless colourless gas with an invisible flame!!!

And also I am against the idea of using high current and use of chemicals. But now again I have started the work on HHO because I just cant sit tight. This is by copying ideas from the internet. An HHO unit without chemicals and high current. Only the electronic circuit is complete and finishing the tube is taking long long time. Give me some time and I will give you the update after trying this on the engine. I am doing this risky thing for everybody's curiosity.

I dont want my conclusion to be final. Those who object may produce evidence.

Gentlemen,

Please don't misconstrue my good intentions for you and let us not get too defensive.  You either believe in furthering this technology (which in no way ready as on date, as a long running sellable commercial product) or you do not.  Either way it is only a discussion here for those curious to know more on this, and who have the resources towards this cause.  I must reiterate here yet again, that in my personal opinion, do not consider this as a promising business offer to make that fast buck, just as yet.

1) But first for those who think they have actually made this to work without issues and have stabilized it, must come forward and demonstrate its working and be open to general public review.  Can this be considered a plug and play device and a fixed settings/tuning be concluded for any vehicle?  Can this kit start giving benefits from day one?  What is the level of knowledge required from the end user point of view? And lastly, is it safe???

2) If the answer to above is yes, then you hit the gold mine, get your kit approved by ministry of surface transport after getting it tested by VRDE or like (it only takes about 5-6lacks for this approval).

3) HHO is patented, so I suggest we rather use the term “Hydroxy gas” or “mixture of hydrogen-oxygen” or whatever, instead of HHO.  But for the sake of experimenters it might be a good idea to use the term HHO as a search string on internet.

4) This hydroxy gas is surely colourless, odourless and the flame is invisible in daylight (it still shows, though not vigorous enough, if you do this test in a vacuum tube or in dark rooms).  But when you ignite it, as long as you are not using a heavy dose of electrolyte and the amount of hydroxy gas is not high (just be very careful) an attempt to ignite this will result into a sudden spark, so you do not investigate more if the flame is there or not?  If the spark is not there, then rest assured there is no flammable gas too. Ensure you use appropriate safety device (like a long tube lighter) if you do decide to run this risky test.  But evaluate your risks, and make sure common sense prevails.

5) Personally, I would be highly interested to learn jeseph’s findings on how to produce this gas with low current and also in the absence of electrolyte /chemicals.  Please do post your findings as and when it is available.  I am being too curious to know joseh’s approach on this.

6) Believe it or not, Pure water (Distilled) is a “NON CONDUCTOR ” of electricity, you surely need a medium to generate that spark between the plates and the only way I am aware of, is that it comes in by making water a conductor or electricity by adding KoH, NaOH, bicarbonates etc... Again in my opinion this electrolysis method can be closely compared with a capacitor in which the spark flashes (electric discharge) from one plate to another and in return it is this flash that fractures the medium in between.  Water is fractured down to its sub atomic level producing a mixture of Hydrogen+Oxygen.

Hey, I too am finding a lot of this as no more than entertainment.  Is this only theory that we are discussing here with folks giving their "pre-conslusions" based on little or no test done so far, or can people come forward and state their actual findings / results?

Anjeel sorry to interrupt u again....bt one more thing....since u r already using it in ur Santro.....

buddy ....has ther maintainence in ne way of ur car increased ?...i mean long term usage of the HHO --now called HYDROXY-GAS apparatus,wud need to b serviced,or atleast require sum attention rite ?..

I stripped the kit from Santro last year, and put it to my Wagon R.

Consider maintenance in two parts.  First the maintenance of the car in general as we all do - like oil change, plugs filters etc..  Here there is no difference, in fact the plugs are comparatively cleaner and mostly white (but do not give this complement to Hydroxy gas alone) as this could be as a result of a very well tuned engine and I personally ensure that the engine is tuned at its best.

The second part is maintenance of the Hydroxy kit (primarily changing of water).  There are varied results I got here.  I have tried changing water initially every 1000km and later started doing this every 300km approx.  This was mainly because the gas production becomes low as the water becomes old (or it could be one of those unstable tunings of the ECU signals as I keep repeating this time and again) I could not find any thumb rule here.   The water that needs to be changed even after 100 km becomes brown sludge as a result of the electrolyses that is happening in the fuel cell.  I tried putting a drain system with a cock towards the end of the cell but that resulted in leaks and drop in pressure so I removed it and put a dead plug (something like the one you have in the oil chamber of the engine).  This stopped the leakage but when draining the water from the cell, no matter how careful you are you just cannot avoid mess, That is the maintenance I was referring to above.

Apart from this I have not had any issues as regards any damage or additional wear and tear to the original car in any way, so far.. touch wood.

Anjeel,

Is there a US number where i can reach you . I work form offshore on US timings. you can mail me on prakash0074@rediffmail.com .

Look forward to speak to you , i am currently started experimenting it , but have some shortfall of items , so just wanted to check the equivalent for those things mentioned in Ozzie's freedoms book.

Hope you wont mind sharing the information . you let me know the best time to talk to you as i understand as a professional youwould be busy at the client's site.

Cheers

Prakash

832-485-3625

Prakash, post your questions here and I will try to answer these to the best of my knowledge.

Thanks Anjeel - that's obviously better, as it will benefit all. Discussion on personal front (e-mail) should always be avoided in forums.

@Prakash, I trust you appreciate the concern - please post your queries here. Thanks.

yes dats rite...n also Anjeel...just incase ppl do mail u for suggestions/help etc......pls do post them out here too........

its happened wid me too at times.......ppl hav taken sum advice (regarding d WagonR Duo )..n i hav posted them in the appropriate threads @carwale forums !...

as rightly pointed out by Pankaj...its beneficial to all of us here We get to kno answers to questions which mite b of use to Us

cheers !