Water4gas India

 

Okay...so it petrol!....

 

well then .....y wud ne1 use sucha thing ?..

keeping other things aside......y wud ppl switch to nething other than petrol ?.....for saving money ofcourse......

so instead of soooo much of pain....... one can simply use CNG !!!!.......

 

umm--i kno Anjeel...u mite b thinkin guys like me r crazy...cuz instead of "technology " i m looking at saving n only saving......bt the fact is that ....the Whole concept of alternate fuels is based on SAVING .... dats y CNG is getting more popular day by day.

 

wen HHO burns ..it is Invisible ?....oops.....  !!...so if we count r risks....we can put it this way------

we wont even get to know wen  its all up in flames !!! (actually widout flames !!)

 

risky !!!!

yes it can be quite risky and I believe, one of the reason it is not so popular could be perhapses to do with safety.  Yet another reason which I think is that the results of its efficiency are not stable.  Like I said above sometimes you get fantastic results and there are times when they are not so good.  There are many things that are manual here.  For example how good is the electrolyte that you are using and at that depends on how much KOH or NaOH or bicarbonate of soda you added and what is mmw you are drawing, how much is the amperage.  Only practice helps here.  

But the argument is not about what is better or safer,  This is another form of alternate energy.  So what is debate about CNG here. I do not get your question>> the only thing that comes to my mind is I just laugh at the guys standing at the petrol bunks when I see them wait for 45min in queue and yet once they fill up, their tank will last only 135-150km and again they will be back in the queue.  

HHO is still budding and it is not justifiable to compare it with a technology that has been there for donkey years...

On the other hand, there are ways to use the gas and there are safer ways to handle it.  Top of this is common sense.

Say for example If you got vacuum and you introduce HHO in its pure form with no other contamination, what you got in that vacuum is rocket fuel.  You have a combustible gas that is carrying with it, its own oxidizer, and its perfect mix ratio for perfect combustion.  The combustion bi-product from Oxygen and hydrogen is water.  Water is condensed into oxygen and hydrogen.  So here you got this gas that takes volume x and you ignite it.  There is an immediate explosion, release of energy and some hydrogen is consumed.  So you do get an explosion in your vacuum chamber.  But as a result of the explosion the bi-product -  the residue of the explosion is that portion of oxygen and hydrogen that is not consumed and what happens is it condenses back into water.  So what you get is if you get a rapid expansion or rather an explosion impulse, immediately followed by remaining gases condensing into water which will create an additional vacuum.  So this is why HHO implodes.  If you have contaminants in the combustion chamber, say qty of air or perhaps inert gas like  carbon dioxide or nitrogen, what you get is the expansion caused by the combustion and you still get the condensation  of the bi-products back into water but the inert gases are not associated with the condensation so they remain heated up by the explosion.  So the implosion effect is less noticeable.  It is still there but you just cannot see it.

If you want to do an HHO experiment you do have to figure out a way to observe this combustion (HHO) in vacuum with no other contaminants.   That is very interesting effect.  In fact I keep thinking to myself if we could design an engine that was specifically designed to take advantage of this explosion and implosion effect you could get two impulses for the price of one, out of using HHO as a fuel.  That would be a marvelous thing. BUT>>> we are not there yet.   In fact not even close..

Note: Post edited to merge two consecutive posts.

Anjeel, thanks for the info.

Does running the radio in your car burn excess gasoline?
Try this experiment. Run your portable genset without load using one litre of fuel. Note down the timings. Now run it on maximum load using one litre fuel. Note the timings. You got the answer.

Nothing wrong in connecting the vapouriser to the battery. The idea is to connect load within the maximum rated value of  your alternator without interfering in the battery charging process.

Since it is your objective to promote HHO, would you please answer these doubts?
How many KM have you passed?
How much is the current consumption of the set-up?
Is it possible to control the throttle response with a constant supply of HHO?
Have you left your vehicle idle for more than two weeks?
Have you changed your engine oil? What was the condition?
In case of malfunction, can you change-over to petrol only mode without getting out of the car?
(engine timing/tuning required?)
Do you need a co-driver to fiddle with the controls when you are driving?
How much was the bill for the last engine reconditioning?
When are you going to show the engine to the doctor?

Just joking. BTW the ad on your site is nice .
Thanks in advance.

Let me try if I answer these questions.  I will make an attempt

How many KM have you passed? 
**On this particular Wagon R, I have done more than 10,000km since its conversion.  There were other vehicles which I drove much less.

 

How much is the current consumption of the set-up?
** Well there is not a single answer to this.  First let me re-iterate that I have yet to find out the best setting on this.  Say for example if I keep higher concentration of KOH say 2 tea spoons to a litre of tank then I my amperage goes above 28 and I am kind of not comfortable with that due to two reasons.  1)  That kind of amperage is too high for a small car of this size. And more importantly than this is 2)  If you raise the concentration of KOH and even though you are bubbling out through water there might be chances of KOH entering into the engine and KOH is like kill injection to the engine.  Yet the gas production can go over 2 litres/min and that is pretty good.  But in my case I try to avoid this.  On the other hand I raise the voltage to 60 and keep the amps under 5.  With this I am able to run my Unit with 1/4th of a tea spoon of KOH or NaOH.  I get a decent production little less than 1 liter/min.  Efficiency is less but safety of the engine and over all car first.

 

 

Is it possible to control the throttle response with a constant supply of HHO?
***Think of it this way.  You HHO production is @ say 700ml/min and it may vary + or – by a certain amount.  But for the sake of the discussion let us assume it is fixed at 700ml.  However the fuel demand of the vehicle keeps changing depending on the load on the car.  This is compensated using the Petrol only.  So in other words there is just no change to the throttle response.  It remains just the same as it was before conversion.  In fact you do not even notice it unless you are chocking too much on the MAP/MAF or being greedy to draw too much out of it.

 

 

Have you left your vehicle idle for more than two weeks?
***Do not get your question .  Do  you mean not used if for more than two weeks.  Yes I have left it unused for several weeks when I am out of the country.

 

Have you changed your engine oil? What was the condition?
***I get my oil changed every 5000km.  I have had two oil changes so far after convesion of wagon R.  Nothing unusual is noticed.  And I have not gone to the extend to get a chemical test done of used oil.  What is it that you are trying to suspect?

 

 

In case of malfunction, can you change-over to petrol only mode without getting out of the car?
(engine timing/tuning required?)
***The HHO Introduction is another parallel fuel intake.  Unlike CNG, HHO can not run all by itself and your Petrol line is not stopped at all.  You are only restricting the amount of petrol so as to take benefit of HHO.  Now in case of a malfunction you just switch off your HHO Unit (I am using circuit breakers for this), and the two sensor controls – MAP and Lambda.  That is it.  Just flick the three stiches and you are back to where you started – Petrol.

 

Do you need a co-driver to fiddle with the controls when you are driving?
***No.  Guys this is not rocket science.  Why not some of you come over a week end and test drive it for your self.  And Please do this before 10 December this year.  I am planning to be back to US in mid Dec for about 6 months or so.  Please mail me if you guys want to see this.,  You can either come to my office which is @ IBM opposite 32 milestone, Gurgaon (with prior notice) or on a week end at home - Shivalik.  Who’s treating for a chill beer by the way

Forgot to comment on (engine timing/tuning required?)

*** if your HHO production is not too great, that means although your unit is working just over 2mmw then you do not have to bother about changing the timing at all.  And this way you get about 30% improvement in mileage quite easily. 

 

I must also add another important note here.  When you are doing tests like these you often tend to go to extremes. I mean you want to see what is the best that can be achieved and during the course of these tests (atlest it is the case with me), you tend to make sure you are giving the best of driving habit to the cause and with least amount of abuse to the machine,  because you want to see the best results.  But that is not a real time test, I might have got 29KPL on a few occasions but why can I not get it all the time, because not all the times I am driving that sensibly.  So guys you cannot get magic out of HHO and if you are looking at running your car completely on water, you are wasting your own time.  Please excuse the statement.  However as a bonus what you do get for sure is additional improvement of power / torque.  Again not magical but is is adds approx 20-25% more power to the engine which is only noticaeable on highways and not much in city driving.

 

The difficult task is to go beyond this 2MMW mark.  If you increase the efficiency of the cell to above 60% that is to say you cross 4mmws then you got a great gas production but what comes along, is its own problems too.  The good part in this case is that the Power increase is much noticeable and you can feel it even in city driving conditions.  But before that, you must have very reliable safety devices so as to prevent the flash back.  And if you are overloading the alternator you may be getting more gas but since you are taxing the alternator you will not get better results in terms of mileage, and even more since the volume of gas now entering into the engine is more, so to get better gains out of it you need to now retard the ignition (something like how it is done in CNG kits), I have tried these iterations but frankly I have not got satisfactory results so far.  So in my case I do not change the timing and keep it all to factory standard only.

 

 

By the way can someone else also comment on this.  I would like to hear more opinions here.

 

 

And where is Mr. Girish who started this thread... Can you commnet on this. Helooooooooooooooooo

Hi  everybody
It is very ni ce to share  anjeel  knowledge on this thread. In the mean time I am not able to comment as I am on my project work in rural area for more than 2 months. in the mean time after HHo setup( with little improvement )  I tried groove technology by somender singh in My Van And I am getting I good mileage of 19.5 knpl at 60 kmph   the power is also good so that I can drive in 4 th gear at 25 kmph . whts more I am able to drive without my foot on pedel at 20ery mkph on plain road. Thean  groove is one time work and solve almost all problems including emissions.

Anjeel pl refer our mail I am sending you snpas of my van groove technology.

Again thanks for anjeel ( hho guru) for his photos and experience

Anjeel ,

Is there a number where i can reach you , I am from Bangalore , so at the moment no chance of meeting you , so though of speaking to you over phone . I have purchased the water4gas book. If you have some time , maybe i can discuss certain issues with you. I can be reached on 099866 59771.Do let me know your thoughts ..

Cheers

Prakash

 

 

well..no my point was.......

fine technology is new n stuff....

but for common ppl like us ....(the public) we wud appreciate the resrearch work which is going on,bt no1 will b interested if ders not much saving .....+the installation cost n stuff.........n abt CNG.....well the ppl who get it filled wud b laughing at the Guys who get petrol filled at Rs50 + per litre..... so its not a question of laughing......it ultimately gets down to what one wants---HEAVY saving wid sum time sacrifice.......or Simply high running costs !

1)  I cannot publisize my number on the forum, But beleive me it is not difficult to find me on the net.

 

2)  Water4Gas is a good way to begin and to get an overview of what this technology at a very very very very high level.  Let me tell you it does not even qualify for a HHO kinder garden test on the contrary.  It is perhaps equivalent to explaining Ramu kaka about “how the new release of Oracle is better than the previous one” as an example and yet knowing very well that he has never even seen a PC.  And all that ramu kaka learns at the end of the day is, Wow computers are really in these days …Phew!!!

 

Someone correctly pointed out on this thread or elsewhere that these books or like one of those - how to become a prime minister in 7 days.  If you are not aware of the statistics Ozie sold over 80,000 e-books this year and unless he makes it look that simple how would people like you contribute to his success.  Guys do the math yourself $80 x those number of copies….  And shall I tell you more, now that he has over 100,000 members he is offering an affiliate program @ $20/month.  This is pension for him and yet he does not even sell a thing.  Pretty sweet… I must say.  Guys surely recession is not there for this guy for sure....

 

But then there are others who are sincerely contributing towards advancement of this technology and most of us are doing this as a part time hobby or experiments out of our own interest with what ever little resources we have.

 

It would be great if you guys appreciate what we are trying to do and support us in what we are trying to achieve.