Water4gas India

hi Girish,

Water4gas sounds intersting. I have maruthi esteem(99) model, i would like to install HHO system in my car, can you pl. give techical info, if you have the photos with gudieline will help to understand better.

thanks in advance,
Fanteen

Girish

I have purchased the same books maybe a year back and had a chance to see one working actively in back in California . If possible let me know if we can connect . I am from Bangalore , let me know if we can connect first as I wanted to discuss something with you and later wed could publish it ..

I can be reached on 99866 -59771.

Cheers

Prakash

Girish said he installed it in his van. But did not tell us how much fuel gain he got. One should think about the disadvantages of using water in an oil based engine such as:
Rusted valves, worn out engine due to poor lubrication, fast rusting of exhaust system, damaged electrical system etc.
If you leave your vehicle idle for two weeks there is a good chance that the valves and pistons will get rusted in its position and you will end up with a stuck engine.
Water is going to seep through to engine oil and will damage the lubrication system.
Drawing high current will damage the electrical system which is not designed for it and may result in poor charging of battery and your engine may fail to start.
The exhaust system for sure is going to get damaged in no time.

Is it worth screwing up your engine and car for a 10 % fuel gain?

haha...10 percent fuel gain !!!...n dat also with sooo much of pain !!!..

 

This post is edited to remove/delete text that could have been construed as personal attact.

Well...Pankaj ...sorry for such a thing.. though i did try my best not to send thast post!!

.i kno it wasnt expected frm me....n i m sure u never really found "that" in my posts b4...... since i am not the ones to fight or sumthing.......

 

 

bt its just that...."sumbody" came to carwale...trying to introduce sumthing NEW to this WOrld ..... ...den he was challenged by the "rational thinkers" whom he defined as "ignorant " or "watever"........

no1 sed a thing......even though ....the "rational Thinker" is one of the MOST Respected n Undoubtedly the MOSt knowledgible person at this Site.

n den wen the time came for performace to do the talkin...the "Sumbody" wasnt seen again.

not gettin personal....but yes...wasn't it a TIMEWASTE ??....

probably the Only thing to b learnt was ..NEVER BELIEV IT UNTIL U SEE IT !!!

Guys!! I have patiently gone through the entire thread and would like to add a few things here for the benefit of all. But before that let me first state that threads like these “must not be used” to commercialize small gains like selling books and like. This is crap and carwale must take note of this. If you have the knowledge, then share it for free. I have a great respect for Mr. Ozzie Freedom and must also state that his books in industry are considered as bible…. But I must add it is for the novice experimenters… Please remember when dealing with HHO you are probably dealing with one of the most lethal gas known to mankind. If handled wrongly, it might just be your last day… Using Glass jars, steel wires, plastic caps, using glue to stick on, you are only preparing a grave yard… sorry to say.. Getting partial knowledge is more dangerous and imagine doing this on Indian roads with countless number of potholes of varied sizes.

I will take on the critics as also the supporters of this technology. But before I go on further on this let me tell you guys, I have been working on this technology since 2001 and have been to US several times and have personally met most of the HHO gurus and seen both sides of the story myself. In the past few years I have converted a few cars to run on HHO and will share my experiences depending on how this thread goes from here. The best shot I got was with my Wagon R giving 29km/lt running on HHO producing less than 1 liter /min (this car originally ran 12kpl in city driving without HHO). This was a significant improvement and I still own this car on date and it still runs on HHO. You can find more info on this at http://www.anjeel.com/auto/hydrogen_my_objective.html

While the above sounds too good to be true, there were also other cars which could gave hardly any improvement but this could have been due to poor mechanicals or other factors. I must state this technology is still evolving and some conversion get fantastic results while others do not. There are many reasons for this but I will take that one by one. Now let me answer some of the critics who would like to go by the book.

Note: Post edited to merge three consecutive posts.

====>  Is it not contradictory to the Laws of Thermodynamics?

I have heard the 'laws of thermodynamics' arguments. When you run a hybrid of gasoline and hydrogen, the engine runs more efficiently because it is augmented by the HHO gas. This is perfectly sound in terms of laws of physics and i'll tell you why.

Does running the radio in your car burn excess gasoline? No, the reason is when you convert kinetic energy to electricity using an alternator on an internal combustion engine, you are putting out more electricity than the system needs. This extra energy if not used is wasted.  A good HHO design would take only that amount of electricity which is less than the wasted energy and use it to power the electrolysis which provides HHO gas to engine intake. The result is that this makes fuel burn more efficient, increases gas mileage (not to mention TORQUE INCREASE), and makes emissions cleaner.  

The alternator doesn't produce electricity all the time it is running, the field current is controlled by the regulator and when nothing is needed no field current is supplied. It also puts a strong load on the engine when it is making a lot of electricity. The more voltage to the field the stronger the electro-magnet.  

However, the alternator in a car does not turn on and off like let’s say your ac compressor. The alternator can (though not always, unless needed) remain constantly on in making power. It doesn’t take more energy from the engine that is already running...the only way it wouldn’t work is if it ran on HHO alone......same theory on hybrid cars...the alternator puts access energy into more batteries not wasting what energy the alternator is making while driving and when its idling it runs off that power it was able to store

So the idea here is to find how much of the energy produced by the alternator is actually being wasted and utilize that portion of wasted energy to power the electrolyses and improve the efficiency of the engine by that proportionate margin. Remember THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH and therefore the efficiency of your HHO unit will be based on the above theory.

I will explain in detail how the efficiency of the HHO unit is measured and the theory behind it in case there are some real experimentors.

Thanks Anjeel; a nice write-up


1st National Meet (CW Forums) at Mumbai on 19-20th Dec.'09. Check invitation & details at http://www.carwale.com/forums/viewthread-10791.html, and confirm your participation by 15/11/'09.

 

p.s---once more....is it 29 Kms per litre of Petrol ??...

Ok let me try to explain this a little more.

First there is no car that can run purely on HHO/Water.  If there is someone who claims this, I have my doubts..(this would be a pure deviation from the laws of thermodynamics and it is not possible anywhere on this planet)  

However, you must also keep in mind that HHO is far more efficient than gasoline or diesel.  

1) The energy content of Petrol is approx 47Kilo Joules / gram by weight. When compared to HHO it is 141 KJ/gm.

2) The flammability range of HHO is 75% as compared to 6% in case of Petrol.  Also keep in mind that the flame travels at Mach3 which also speaks of the importance of safety devices like flash arrestors and bubblers..

3) The octane rating of HHO is 130+ (and this is considering a lean mix), the same for petrol is 87-93

4) Ignition energy of HHO is far higher than Petrol

5) The burning speed of the HHO flame is much higher than Petrol, and to make matter worse, when HHO burns it is invisible

6) Gasoline or Petrol as we more commonly understand it in India, is composed of a mixture of many different hydro-carbons, but an important constituent is heptane (C7H16). Others like LPG/CNG/Ethenol / Methenol etc are even less volatile when compared to Petrol. HHO will expand almost "1800 times" more than Gasoline / Petrol

Now to cut the long story short, we need to add just a little amount of HHO into the main-stream.  If the amount of HHO entering into the engine is small volume then in that case no major modification is required and a straight tap into the air intake will do the trick, however all depends upon the efficiency of the cell you have designed and how close it is to the faraday's principal.  On the other hand if you design a cell that generates above 5mmw then you need to modify the engine to shift the TDC else there will be stupid knocking and other issues.  It is best to stick to 4-5 mmws

Now to answer your question, yes the best shot I got with my wagon R on a few occasions in past months is 29 (Twenty nine) KPL but this is not always the case.  Usually my average ranges anything between 19-22 KPL and I am talking city driving conditions.  I live in south Delhi and my work place is DLF Silohera, so take into account that this is a bit better than normal city driving though not highway driving, I wish.  But can you dream of getting 20KPL even on the best of the tuned Wagon R??? Also my several tests on highway show the best result on highway still remains at 29KPL and that makes me believe that perhaps my cell can still be improved upon.