For all the noise, how is Fiat really doing?

@ Amit , you have rightly mentioned about exclusive show room of Fiat . Atleast they must have different space & different people if they are in the same showroom. Here problem is of identity. Also perception plays very important role here. Focus should be there .

Excellent discussion guys.

But rather than just patting your backs alone (whicih of course is required), I would say the topic started here is a very relevant and thought provoking one.

Fiat, has a two extremes when it comes to brand image. Ask a Fiat owner and he will not stop bragging about how good the product is. But do a general survey abouth brand preferences and Fiat will be among the lowest. On top of it, for some reason or the other, sales guys in tata-fiat showrooms push Tata's more. Weather its incentives, or not easy to sell, or whatever reason.

In my case, when I wanted to buy an adventure, every one I knew was coercing me to re-think; as they have never seen the car. They told me it is unwise to buy a product that has been in the market for 2- 3 years and is yet never seen on road. I read through forums, met a few peope who onwed the adventure and all of them told me only good things about it. Only minuses reported were mileage and resale value. I was least ineterested in either, so my choice was clear. But the fact that I came to know that it is going to be discontinued and was not available in my fav color were holding me back. I still wantd to buy it, went in the showroom and the way the sales guy was talking to me, made me feel, "am I really making a mistake here?". if the guy selling it, is not pushing that hard (especially knowing that it is getting disconitnued and he should clear stock ASAP), means I will have real hard time when I bring it back for service etc.

If this was the case with me, consider people who do not have such strong preference for the Fiat brand. They need an extra push. Recently, I visited the showroom again to check Linea with a freind. The guy around did tell us all we wanted to know and it felt much better than my previous experience. Even though this time round I was not a buyer. I guess the attitude has changed as far as sales staff is concerned. However, to bridge the gap and create a pull for the Fiat brand a lot more needs to be done. Otherwise, the sales wont really do justice to such good products that Fiat is coming out with.

What would it be like if Mcdonalds approached IRCTC to sell burgers along with vada pav's ?

1. the burger target market would dread to deal with a vada pav seller to buy a burger.

2. the vada pav seller, even if he put on his best shoes and outfit, and combed his hair, still not make a credible burger salesman.

3. If a vada pav seller moved too upmarket to reach the burger clientele, he would risk losing his original customer base, even if he wants to sell spicier, and 'differentiated' vada pavs, because for his original market, the key attributes differ significantly from his new target market. - if you wanted to grab a vada pav, would you buy one from a local burger/vada pav franchise?

4. A leopard cannot change his spots. Like we say in malayalam, kaaka kulichal kokkavila ( pretty much the same meaning). No matter how hard tata dealers try, I dont expect them to match , the best in the business.

Tata might have plans to move up the food chain. It might even happen, but its not going to happen, if it is going to happen at all. Its not going to change from some herbivore to a predator right away. I guess it will have to spend some time as an omnivore, and then probably a scavenger for a while

This proposal - while it makes very good sense on paper - lower costs, same delivery mechanism, cover two non exclusive markets yadda yadda - I have doubts if this ship would sink.

vivek automobiles als refused me that no linea/punto and bang the phone.

Techno was good and they brought the car at my place.  Even Sanya brought the car at my place but that car was not a TD car infact it was someones car who might have booked it.  Pity for that customer who must have taken the delivery of that car which they used it as TD.

Infact all the tata dealers here are not so rude towards fiat cars

@Green-nice 'food for thought' there(pun intended!). 

Brand image and luxury are very closely scrutinized-usually together. Let alone Fiat trying to sell through TATA, even the very same car makers will have to reinvent and sub-brand themselves to sell in the upper segments.(like Honda with Acura/Nissan-Infinity and Toyota -Lexus).

One good example of clear branding is of VW - Skoda . In this case also major products are sharing almost everything except company logo but have successfully differentiate themselves in the market. One major difference is - Exclusive showroom. Fiat-Tata can adopt this approach to make their JV more successful.

I wouldn't say that all Tata dealers are rude and don't want to sell Fiat's. There maybe some resistance and instances of not taking a prospective Palio buyer seriously for obvious reasons but not towards these new cars.

I will give my expereince during the buying of the Punto. I checked out Fortune Powai and Nerul and Sharayu Hyundai for i20. In June, the i20 only had the 1.2 petrol motor which I wasn't too excited about but overall the car was very attractive for me so the decision would be between the i20 1.2 and Punto MJD.

Sharayu Hyundai is the first dealer I visited. The salesguy was thoroughly dis interested in talking to me. In June, i20 was doing about 2 - 2.5K units monthly so maybe that was the reason. I was refused a test drive because 'the driver has gone out. I will call you tomorrow and arrange a TD at your office.' I am still waiting for that call. The prices of the variants was told to me verbally and when I asked for the price list sheet the sales guy actually said "I just told you the prices.'

Fortune Nerul was lethargic. The guy that sold me the Punto was the sales manager! He knew nothing about the car. When I was checking out the vehicle, he was standing away talking to his colleagues! TD was with the company driver. To his credit, he did ask me how I liked the car after the test drive. Thank God for that!

Fortune Powai was the best of the lot. Anyone buying a car do visit them and talk to Paresh Salaskar. The guy took efforts to show me the car. He sat inside the display car with me, explained all the features, even took the key switched on the ignition and showed the MY CAR features. He even paired my phone to Blue&Me and asked me to make a few calls to see how well it works. We were accompanied by him on the TD too and were told to make a note of the sharp steering feedback and robust suspension. After the test drive, I was taken around the service area and was told that they had dedicated mechanics with expereince on Fiat cars so service wouldn't be an issue at all. As a prospective customer, I was very satisfied and re-assured that buying a Punto wouldn't be a wrong decision. However, I was never called back or pushed by the Powai outlet so they did lose some points on that front.

Ultimately, I bought the car from Nerul because most car companies stock yards are outside Mumbai city limits and Nerul is much closer to where Fortune's stock yard is. I didn't want the showroom driver's to have fun ripping my brand new car from the stock yard to Fortune, Powai as there is a fair bit of highway driving invovled on that route.

From my SX4 buying expereince, I would say Maruti sales is the best. They keep on calling you and following up until you have made your decision. The sales person's knowledge isn't much - in fact, Ratan Maruti didn't even know the engine size of the SX4 but their follow up was relentless. Ditto for Vitesse.

So do we now have some clues as to why there is much ado and not too much action?

Keep those wheels turning!

I would just like to make a small point here, we have positives and negatives in every organization/set-up. If we start looking at negatives, trust me we end up finding more and more of them. Tell me honestly, are we all been very warmly welcomed and followed up religiously whenever we made a visit to any other dealer other than Tata/Fiat. In my case I will say 'No'. Infact I got a call from a Hyunadi dealer today whom I visited 3 months ago for i20 test drive and I was very warmly welcomed by Tata/Fiat dealer and I am happy with decision I made.

But, why hardwork of Fiat to dispel apprehensions about Fiat product are not paying off in India? Just a numerical analysis, Fiat sales are declining for second consecutive month.

Total sales Tata+Fiat October'09 = 22,232  (Tata 20,011 + Fiat 2,221)

Tata sales have increased, is this the Manza effect?

From personal expereince, I would say a lot of people are interested in Linea and Grande Punto but are scared to commit because of Fiat's legacy. Since I bought the Punto, about 5-6 times, I have been accosted in parking lots (once a Estilo next to me at a traffic light honked at me and asked about the car) asking me how the GP is and whether I am happy with my decision. The same thing is being seen in the virtual world. Another example is see how many hits Linea and GP ownership threads get compared to the hits a SX4 or Verna thread gets. Don't underestimate the friends and relatives and their "What? Fiat? Are you crazy?!" responses which makes people get online (and accost Fiat owners on the roads) and talk and ask about the cars.

It's a catch 22 situation. Fiat wants to improve and wants to be given a chance to show that but people want to see the improvement first before they jump into the Fiat world. To be fair, I feel they are far more faster in their responses now then during the Palio era. Maybe it's the Tata effect at work here. See how swiftly Fiat responded to the small issues in the Linea like chrome beading falling off and seats going down on their own. All these issues were sorted out within months of the Linea launch but compare that to how they responded in 2002 when Palio's sales started tanking on reports of it being a fuel guzzler.

It's like you are in love in Naomi Campbell but then you know she is famous for her bad tamper so you ask everyone that knows her to reassure yourself that everything will eventually be okay.

In two years of owning the SX4, I have never been asked about it once. Obviously, people know that because it's a Maruti, it's going to be here 5 years from now and they are going to get spares and service so no one bothers. But with Linea and GP, there could be a roller coaster of a ride for the next 3-5 years.