For all the noise, how is Fiat really doing?

I dont think anyone HATES anyone else around here on the basis of car ownership.  Nor are there 'bashers'.

Please go back to the first post - what was stated there is what this thread is about.  Its not about love or hate - it is about objectively analyzing why a brand that is (without doubt) the most visible on internet forums (here and elsewhere) is not visible on the roads.

Go back to the forum homepage, click on 'today's posts' and count the number of Fiat-related posts.  Its normally about 50% - if you just go by whats on this site and a couple of others, you see Fiat here, there and everywhere.

But not on the roads.

And thats what this thread is all about.  Not love or hate or any such sentiments.

Over and out.

Keep those wheels turning!

I am sure they would like to have their own showrooms. Let's do some calculations.

Cost of land, building construction, swanky interiors and service equipments would be about 5 crores. Then you have staff to employ. You need more money to buy cars from Fiat to sell them. Maybe Fiat gives 30 days credit to dealers, do their cars sell off in 30 days? Surely not. Sales is not where  money is. Service is where you get your moolah. It's far more lucrative to set up a Honda service due to their 5,000 kms service intervals then have Fiat's coming every 15,000kms for service. Then the dealer has to hold spares. Again, there could be 30 days credit from manufacturer. Due to low volumes, will the spares get used in 30 days? If a dealer buys 10 headlights or 10 mirrors of Linea, will he use them up in 30 days?

Can a businessman recover his investments selling 2,500 cars and servicing a few more every month? Fiat was FORCED to look at a partner. They had their own dealers and service for almost a decade did'nt they? You talk as if they piggy backed on Tata from day one. Evn if I had that money, I would set up a Honda dealership and buy a Punto to enjoy it's drive.

If I go to the first post & few in the beginning , was quite healthy & interesting,

but Answers/discussions are always based on few of the later posts to carry then forward healthyly.

Good things in life are never too expensive.....So called Best things May be.....

Have you actually gone through the ownership reports of Linea and Punto or you are just posting blindly. For all the Fiat fanboys talk, Linea and Punto ownership reports are among the most objective and very clearly list down the bad points alongwith the good ones. No Linea or Punto owner has said that it's the best car in the world. No body get's irritated if you compare Fiat sales to others. It's all in your mind. For all the fiat fanboy's stuff that goes on here, my own report of my Punto has pictures showing poor quality parts used - interior light unit, plastics surrounding the ignition etc. Have you seen that? Not a single Hyundai or Maruti or any compan'y car ownership report has that kind of detailing yet they are objective and I am biased?! Every single owner says Linea and Punto need bigger engines. Why do you keep harping on the biased posts? Do you actually read reports or just assume things like many assume things about the company in question without actually owning one? Who said that Linea and Punto are extra ordinary? There are cars that perform better, have better plastics, are better finished inside and what not. I accept that. But will you accept that these Fiat's are best when it comes to driving dynamics?

You ask if the product is good why is it not on top of the group. As an example, I feel Audi A4 is the best premium sport sedan today. Why is it not selling the most? I feel Samsung phones are the best, why does Nokia outsell it? Sales are not the barometer of a good product. If it was, S class would be the largest selling car in the world and Nano the least! I know it's a ridiculous explanation but I am using it to show that your statement is a bit weird too.

@Steeroid: Both you and I can quote a lot of things to prove our own side of the story, and I can see that you'll go to great lengths to prove you're right. Well, you win. However, I will always wonder how you will respond if someone rubbishes Jaguar or Land Rover.

It means the best selling products are the worst one in design, driving, handling, pricing etc. etc. and the worst selling products are the best one in every thing. Audi A4 is best sedan, you know anything about its price. Ok and do you think nokia are bad phones, how can you say that. Samsung is nowhere near nokia. There is a tendency in some people to praise for the products who are non-performer or average. The true business mans alwasy follow the trend of the market. You know once there were only Bajaj Scooters and Hero Honda in Motorcycles. There was one LML also. Now the scene has been changed. There is no LML and Bajaj is still there in Motorcycles competing with Hero Honda, not too far behind. That is competition. Now here people will compare Yamaha with Hero honda becasue Hero Honda is selling about 350000 units whereas Yamaha is at 23000. You should clear your mind. Best sellers are always the best and worst sellers are alwasy worst. There is hidden aspect in this equation, and that fiat owners dont want to understand and denying for no reasons. Lenia and Punto are average vehicles nothing than that. You cannot make them the best by writing here again and again. Better you write to Fiat for some extrawork for boosting their products, otherwise soon they are going to die again. I dont know how many times they will die. You know brave dies only once, and cowards die again and again.

Mods, I am multi-quoting again to make sense of what I am answering to.

I never said that. You belive that best selling products are the best in design, performance and everything. Why do you have such extemeist ideas? There are plenty of products that aren't even quarter as good as the GP in driving and handling but sell much more for various other reasons. Why can't you accept that? I will give you an example. Read the latest ACI. It says 25% of i20 sales are diesel. We can assume a optimistic 20% sales of the 1.4 A/T. So, 55% sales are of the 1.2 Kappa engine widely regarded by many as underpowered. Now for some strange reason the i20 underpowered engine never got the attention it deserved while the 1.4 Punto unit is called underpowered by people who havent even seen the car! My point is if 2750 people can buy a i20 1.2 and not complain about it being underpowered then why do these same people call Punto underpowered?

It's obvious the english language isnt' your strong point. I clearly said as an example before that statement and I clearly said why is it not the best selling premium sport sedan which means I was comparing it with it's competiton - C class and BMW 3. In case you really want to know, if I had that kind of money, I would buy the BMW 3 simply because it's been my dream to own and drive a BMW even though I MAY know that the Audi is a far better car.

Why is Samsung nowhere near Nokia? Just because it's Korean and Nokia European? That was exactly my point. In India, Maruti has a great name (Nokia) and hence it sells even though compettion cars (Punto = Samsung) MAYBE better.

And that is why you will always a Maruti or Hyundai. I respect that. But why are you making fun of people who in your words 'do not follow the trend'? Why do you want everyone to do what you are doing?

Competiton is good isnt it? A few pages back you asked why people want Fiat to recover. We want Fiat to be a strong player in India so that you don't pay Civic prices for the next generation City, so that you do not buy Swift AC/TG cars in 2012. Get it?

Who people? YOU keep comparing Fiat (Yamaha) to Maruti (HH) and claim that Fiat is nowhere and doing nothing and a failure. I posted this few pages back. Just like Fiat, have you seen Yamaha's growth? They are the growing faster then Hero Honda - take a glance at the two wheeler YOY sales. Same way, Fiat is India's fastest growing 4 wheeler maker showing a growth of over 400% YOY. I know absolute figures are what should be seen. I suggest you keep a open mind and read my posts few pages back.

Fiat owners are the first to say that sales are tapering off. Of course, Linea and Punto are average cars. Average cars sell in this segment.  I don't understand why you keep on repeating the same thing. What is your problem? You are clearly a case of someone that’s against this manufacturer for reasons best known to you. Go through actual ownership reports of Linea and GP. You will clearly see negitives and positives of these cars. You will  see owners saying that the car’s need bigger engines and more power. The last time I did that for the SX4, I was pounced upon and called against Maruti. So much for non-Fiat owners being objective!

I dont have to write to Fiat for boosting their products. In January, they are launching the T-Jet here. 2010 end we will see the 1.6L MJD with an all new gearbox. If Fiat wanted they could have launched the 1.6L with the old generation GM gearbox and then a year later launched the car with the new gearbox and harp on the "All New Linea!" Maruti would surely have done that!

If we hail Maurti for constantly refreshing their products and coming out with 'all new' versions then I expect you to do the same for Fiat in January and end 2010. Will you do it?

Why should that make any difference to me?  You'll find any amount of literature rubbishing practically every car in the world on the net - does that mean you're not going to drive at all?  Or stay away from online forums?

If it should make a difference to me, you should add to that list the following too: Honda, Toyota, Proton, Seat, Renault, Nissan, General Motors, Ford, Mercedez-Benz, Smart, Tata, Fiat, Hindustan Motors, Maruti and of course Alfa Romeo and Fiat.  I've had all of these vehicles with me - so ideally I should be spending my time getting pissed off by every second post.

Its when we take these things personally that it becomes a problem for everyone else.

Why would it matter to me if Tata did well?  Or if LR or Jaguar did well?  Or indeed any of the other companies that I mentioned?

Dont turn the car you own into an extension of your own personality and start taking everything personally.  If you do, then you'd better stick to one brand for life (preferably one that sells well) or you'll end up making enemies with everyone else around you.  

Is it worth it?  Does it matter to you and me if the company that makes our ride is #1 or #2 or #110 in the world?  Or if someone else calls it names?

It changes nothing for me.  If it does make a difference to you, here's wishing you all the best.

Keep those wheels turning!

Hi Narendra

I went through your sequence of postings and was amazed to see your desperation for Fiat to fail – for no reason.  

Just putting to gether your various comments below

 

1)      Sales of punto – incomparable to i20 or ANHC.

Fiat has long history of flops

 

You started with this comment

 

2)      Fiat is not serious, happy with some units sold. ASS is worst. Will go back to italy soon. Hyundai is doing well from 90s.

 

From here onwards only one thing I could see from all your consequent postings were,

“Fiat will die, Fiat will fail, Fiat will go back etc”